How long before we see a LIMIT on the number of reads we are "allowed"

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Haven't we got enough things to talk about with "the real world", rather than panicking about imaginary "wrongs"?

Given that "view once" DVDs are not imaginary, why would "read once" books be imaginary? The only reason they don't exist now is the limitations of the technology, not of the publishers. After all, if you read a book twice, aren't you stealing from the author the second time because you're reading the book without paying for it (again)? Why should you buy a book once but read it five times? That's the line the publishers are going to use ... and it's going to work.

[JeremyR]

View once DVDs were rentals. And priced as movie rentals.

It's completely different from HC limiting library rentals. After all, in that case, it's one sale, literally infinite amount of possible reads, as being an e-book, there is no physical degradation. How many library books last more than a few years? Not many. But that's no problem with e-books.

I actually would love to see something like that come to e-books. I won't pay $9.99 for an e-book, but I would pay 99 cents to rent a book for one read.

[Greg Anos]

Hmmm...(Just to tick HarryT off, )

What would it take?

How many of you have 3G/4G/Wifi enabled book readers? Hands high!

All you would have to do is to modify the systems software to brick the machine if the "phone home" piece of software is disabled. Then, every time you read the book (say, every time you look at the last page), your reader "phones home" and increment the counter on the server. You hit the max number and then the push software deleted the book. Impossible? Amazon already has the push software as part of their contract when you buy a Kindle. iPad?

Not hard at all...Of course people will still pirate...

[Blue Tyson]

Yes, if that scenario occurs, downloading for free will indeed get far more popular.

[carld]

I still don't see discussing the possibility as paranoia, more a healthy skepticism about the goals and business methods of Corporate America.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

Yes, if that scenario occurs, downloading for free will indeed get far more popular.

If you want to make it even more nasty, here's some extra ideas (all easy to code).

1. Make every piece of software have to go through a central point (Apple? ) and for it to work on the device, make it have to meet the "phone home" requirement.

2. Hash compute the last 500 words (or so), compare the the hashes stored on the publisher's server, and see how close the e-book is, no matter whether it's a limited or not. If it matches, and it's a limited only release, notice, then delete. All automated, no labor involved (heh,heh,heh).

See the joys of convenience...

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

I actually would love to see something like that come to e-books. I won't pay $9.99 for an e-book, but I would pay 99 cents to rent a book for one read.

I think you're being wildly optimistic there. The whole thing would be a pointless exercise unless they were charging 9.99 for the "rental". The vast majority of people will only read a book once anyway, so charging them 0.99 would mean a massive drop in profits.

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

First they'd have to define what is meant by "read."
Would jumping to the last page blow the file up?
Would each page need to be viewed individually?... how about consecutively? Would you have to take a short quiz?

There just won't be an easy way for a publisher/retailer to determine (with any degree of accuracy) that ebook X has been well and truly "read." It would cause a customer service nightmare.

Imagine, just imagine, the implications as regards erotica.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Then, every time you read the book (say, every time you look at the last page), your reader "phones home" and increment the counter on the server. You hit the max number and then the push software deleted the book. Impossible? Amazon already has the push software as part of their contract when you buy a Kindle. iPad?

Amazon already logs how much you read per session and will know when you finish a book by viewing each page sequentially. They also have the capability of removing books from people's Kindles.

I don't think anyone is saying it isn't possible, just that it's unlikely. I'm not really convinced that publishers would have that much power over ebook retailers and device manufacturers. If it does happen, it is more likely to be the ebook retailers that do it.

[CazMar]

Unless the idea of a "5 read rental" or similar was backed up with a big price incentive I can't see any publisher willing to be the first to try this. With higher restriction there is much more incentive to "pirate" books - music publishers were forced into this reality with MP3 files. You can already get a lot of EBooks on file sharing sites but most readers are honest and don't want to be bothered with this (or risk viruses from these often dubious sites). Give them enough incentive and they'll soon lose that inhibition.
The one big market I could see for limited ownership would be textbooks (but on a time based limit, not the number of reads). These could be marketed as a cheap 6 month rental. As it is, students often sell their textbooks 2nd hand when they have finished a course, so it would have to be priced to compete against that market.

[Giggleton]

While on the surface this sounds like a completely ludicrous idea, here in the United States of America, implementing ridiculous business plans is something that we do oh so well.

Truth: Sharing of an author's book increases the author's notoriety, and thus the future worth of the artist's works.

Would a rational publisher choose to limit the sharing of their artist's work, especially in the age of free copying? No, therefore most publishers are irrational.

I can see this scheme being implemented as past of a limited edition book club format, YOU have exactly one month to purchase this ebook, with the special introductory forward written by Oprah herself, after which time we will delete the forward from the book and you will be forced to read a lesser copy, so buy now!!

The book itself could change during the special month when it is featured as part of a promotion, although I wouldn't want it to, but maybe someone would, epubs are webpage's in a box after all.

[sabredog]

If this is to be the case there comes a need for DRM removal tools more and more.

Instead of meeting their customer base in the middle and creating a new, more modern business model, they seem determined to watch the incoming asteroid.

In the end it will cause frustration, annoyance and not do one jot to reduce digital piracy. I guess from mainstream publishing companies this is not unexpected.

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by CazMar

You can already get a lot of EBooks on file sharing sites but most readers are honest and don't want to be bothered with this (or risk viruses from these often dubious sites). Give them enough incentive and they'll soon lose that inhibition.

that's true for me. for some reason i feel really guilty about pirating ebooks

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by CazMar

You can already get a lot of EBooks on file sharing sites but most readers are honest and don't want to be bothered with this (or risk viruses from these often dubious sites). Give them enough incentive and they'll soon lose that inhibition.

Indeed. It seems that the publishers are working night and day to teach ebook readers how to be pirates. I'm fairly sure the end result isn't what they want.

[GreenMonkey]

Originally Posted by DuncanWatson

I have reread almost every one of my books, most multiple times. My only caveat is that many of the books bought in 2010/2011 have yet to be reread. I have a large library as well with about 300 ebooks and 1500 pbooks, the majority of my ebooks are paid, DRM'd epubs.

Frankly calling this speculation paranoia is insulting. The growth of intellectual property rights has been massive in the last 60 years. Discussion about per eyeball charges has been common since the 90s. Executives are always looking for a way to make investors temporarily happy so they can get their big paydays.

The library issue is big, without libraries we run the risk of losing our own history. Allowing a per reader charge now before paper books start disappearing allows there to be precedent. And then libraries are no longer archives and our history and research go down the tubes so we can grease some corporate executives pockets.

Big companies have tried this before. They really believe pay-per-watch is the right model. They've just been unable to get the public to swallow it. Getting them to buy DRM-locked content that they'll probably have to rebuy down the road is like the best they could manage, though.

I know this isn't home theater circles like I normally frequent, so...ever hear of DiVX? Not the internet codec...the product. Pay-per-use competing format with DVD. Luckily, it died.

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

No I won't.

I already don't buy DRM-locked ebooks, even though I could strip the DRM if I wanted to. I refuse to support their business model.

I'm one of the few others with this attitude. Buying it is supporting it. Vote with your dollars. Or don't vote, in my case. I've bought a couple of books I needed ASAP for a couple of history classes...and a few purchases under $2. That's it. I don't buy DRM'd books. The DRM devalues the book to a substantial degree.

I'm already at the point with DRM I barely buy PC games any more, and that used to be a big thing with me. *sigh* I'm hoping the ebook market improves like the music market did...instead of going downhill like the PC market is going with its constant piling on of the chains of DRM.