NAEB Corporate Status

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by fuguru

Is there anyone we can contact on the credit card side? I'd be willing to tell them that I still want to pay, considering they already took my money (even if they will refund me after a fee...).

It seems strange that they are trying to 'save' me from a 'malicious' dealer that at no one said was malicious. Shouldn't they wait until they get emails from ripped off customers before they assume the customer is ripped off? That whole innocent/guilty thing we claim to like so much in America?

Waitaminit! If it's *our* CC processor, shouldn't it be *NAEB* that's paying the refund fee??? After all, they're sucking down a 2% processing fee if they accept the order. You shouldn't be getting charged a fee for a refund if you're only asking for the refund because the CC processor won't release the funds to us! Now there's *another* question to ask them - are they going to hit our customers with a 'refund fee' when only their refusal to deal with us is the cause of the refund! That would be totally unfair to our customers!

Do *NOT* ask for a refund until I can confirm you won't be hit with a fee!

Derek

[Reddog_64]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

We *are* working on it. We'll probably have to ask that you re-submit the order through another credit-card processor - *AFTER* we refund the purchase amount via our 'current' cc processor. We won't know for sure until later today or early tomorrow. Rest assured, if we have to do it this way, you get your charge refunded *FIRST*.

I - personally - hate being so close to successful completion and have this kind of crud come up. So I can understand if you're feeling frustrated as well.

Derek

I paid with a Visa on 1/03/08. Just got my cc statement today.
They took the amount from my account right away -- so I hope they have released the funds to you!!

If WE don't mind "prepaying" for merchandise and waiting a month or two for delivery, why should the cc companies question this? Its our money!!

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Reddog_64

If WE don't mind "prepaying" for merchandise and waiting a month or two for delivery, why should the cc companies question this? Its our money!!

It doesn't seem to be that in particular that's the problem. That is, after all, exactly the way it works if you buy directly from Bookeen, and they haven't had any problems with it. Unless the "rules" are different in the US, perhaps?

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Unless the "rules" are different in the US, perhaps?

In the US, the Federal Trade Commission ruled many years ago that a credit card cannot be charged by a seller until the goods ship unless the goods will ship within 30 days (and some other conditions need to be met). The rule came about because there were too many unscrupulous sellers who would charge the credit card and either not ship at all or would ship 3 to 4 months later and then often not the ordered product.

I suspect that the problem here is that the third-party seller (the club) has charged the credit cards without having the ability to ship the goods and the processors are reluctant to release the money because there is no guarantee that the consumer will ever receive the product, which means that the processor could be stuck with any loss in excess of $50.

Protestations to the processor to release your money (i.e., by the buyer) are unlikely to work because you cannot relieve the processor of liability should you demand a chargeback because you didn't receive the product. It does not matter how much trust you have in the seller or that you are willing to assume the risk (which you can't do); the processor simply doesn't want to be caught for the money.

Perhaps the best approach would be to get Bookeen to directly process the orders. Make an arrangement with Bookeen for the club to collect the orders and pass them on.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by Reddog_64

I paid with a Visa on 1/03/08. Just got my cc statement today.
They took the amount from my account right away -- so I hope they have released the funds to you!!

If WE don't mind "prepaying" for merchandise and waiting a month or two for delivery, why should the cc companies question this? Its our money!!

But that's exactly what even e-onlinedata is doing. And, like Paypal, e-onlinedata is saying that we are not ALLOWED to charge for the product until we have already shipped. So, no, although your credit card has been charged, that money has NOT been deposited into our bank account. And they're getting even stickier about this than Paypal. I'm not sure at this time that we will be able to do anything but stand back and watch them refund all CC purchases for Visa/MC that were NOT placed through the Paypal credit card processor - that would mean they went through e-onlinedata.

If you were directed to the Paypal page, then even if you used a Visa/MC card, that money is on hold and we have a 'chance' to get it released to us. If when you ordered you were taken to the other credit-card processor, then our chances of getting the funds released to us instead of having the credit card processor force a refund will likely be zero.

Sorry for the delay.

Derek

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by rhadin

In the US, the Federal Trade Commission ruled many years ago that a credit card cannot be charged by a seller until the goods ship unless the goods will ship within 30 days (and some other conditions need to be met). The rule came about because there were too many unscrupulous sellers who would charge the credit card and either not ship at all or would ship 3 to 4 months later and then often not the ordered product.

I suspect that the problem here is that the third-party seller (the club) has charged the credit cards without having the ability to ship the goods and the processors are reluctant to release the money because there is no guarantee that the consumer will ever receive the product, which means that the processor could be stuck with any loss in excess of $50.

Protestations to the processor to release your money (i.e., by the buyer) are unlikely to work because you cannot relieve the processor of liability should you demand a chargeback because you didn't receive the product. It does not matter how much trust you have in the seller or that you are willing to assume the risk (which you can't do); the processor simply doesn't want to be caught for the money.

Perhaps the best approach would be to get Bookeen to directly process the orders. Make an arrangement with Bookeen for the club to collect the orders and pass them on.

Not gonna happen. It's a possible solution but I just don't see it happening.

Derek

[lmarie]

So, I'm confused. I paid with Visa, not Paypal. Am I supposed to ask Visa for the money back, or -- ? Or what? Unclear here.

Thanks for any advice.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by lmarie

So, I'm confused. I paid with Visa, not Paypal. Am I supposed to ask Visa for the money back, or -- ? Or what? Unclear here.

Thanks for any advice.

Okay, here's a rather lengthy, and complex explanation. Paypal also offers credit-card procssing if the customer doesn't have a Paypal account. Before we got our credit-card processing set up through e-onlinedata, we first established a Paypal account for either those who *did* have a Paypal account and wanted to use it or those who had credit cards and wanted to use those. Obviously, the e-onlinedata business won't handle Paypal-to-Paypal account payments.

If you placed your order early enough, say back at orders 30 or below, you may have gone through the Paypal interface. THOSE orders are all about to be refunded. If you're one of them, you'll also be getting a notice email from us. I, on my own, chose to do this because Paypal gave me two choices, either refund now, or let Paypal hold onto the money (and generate interest income for Paypal) for six months while they made up their mind to refund the money to you. (Again, presuming you went through the Paypal interface.)

Not Another E-Book is not going to shaft customers by letting Paypal *sit* on the money for six months.

*HOWEVER*, e-onlinedata is willing to let us receive the money charged on credit cards through the e-onlinedata interface as long as we can show that we've actually shipped units to the customers. So all those other customers who used a Visa/MasterCard credit card but did not go through the Paypal interface won't have to do a damned thing but to wait until the units arrive from Bookeen and get shipped out by us.

We have been instructed that there is an 'authorize-only' mode which can be used which will issue an authorization number and put a 'hold' on that much of the credit card's balance but which won't actually 'charge' the amount until we later issue a 'forced-sale' using the authorization number. (this authorization is good for 30 days) Once we get the authorization process changed over - it will probably take over the weekend - those who've been caught in the friggin' Paypal mess will be able to re-place their orders through our regular credit card processor (e-onlinedata) and will get their product in the first batch. (Obviously, it wouldn't be fair to force those who got caught up in the Paypal mess to have to wait until we place our second 100-unit order.) Then, everyone else will go on the next 100-unit order.

Sorry for the mess. By the way, we also take checks.

Needless to say, we're dropping *ALL* business with Paypal.

And thank you for your patience!

Derek

[rlauzon]

OK. So PayPal just gave me my money back.

What's the next step for someone who paid via PayPal?

Do I head over to the store and create a new order?
I don't see a way to modify my order to specify a different payment type.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

OK. So PayPal just gave me my money back.

What's the next step for someone who paid via PayPal?

Do I head over to the store and create a new order?
I don't see a way to modify my order to specify a different payment type.

Please! Do NOT go back to the store just yet. Our other credit card processor, e-onlinedata, needs time to reset a few things so that any credit card authorized from this point onwards is processed as an 'authorization only' transaction. That means we'll have 30 days to actually place an order before the credit card will be charged. It will take a few days for this to be changed over. However, we urge those who haven't been part of the Paypal debacle to not place an order until we post on our storefront that those re-placing their orders that were refunded by Paypal have had a chance to re-place those orders. We know who went through Paypal...

Thanks for your patience.

Derek

[mcdaniel]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

OK. So PayPal just gave me my money back.

What's the next step for someone who paid via PayPal?

Do I head over to the store and create a new order?
I don't see a way to modify my order to specify a different payment type.

I am also one of the early group who used a MasterCard that was processed by PayPal. I also have received an email from PayPal (key info quoted below), but notice that my bank has not yet processed a refund to my credit card account. As we all know, such electronic debits or credits to our credit card accounts usually are posted almost immediately. I will be rechecking over the weekend to see if PayPal has actually issued the electronic refund.

Robert

Not Another E-Book, LTD (dbenner@naebllc.com) has issued you a full or partial refund for your payment.

Please do not reply to this email. Email sent to this address cannot be answered.

Message From Seller:
Paypal is refusing to honor it's responsibilities. Please wait until Monday and re-place the order either with a credit card or by check. But don't select the Paypal option on our store if it still shows up.

Thank you for your patience.

Derek

[penty]

Originally Posted by rlauzon

OK. So PayPal just gave me my money back.

What's the next step for someone who paid via PayPal?

Do I head over to the store and create a new order?
I don't see a way to modify my order to specify a different payment type.

You will have to place a new order. Once I've verified that the CC processing is working again I'll email all the people who originally used PayPal to log in and re-order.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by mcdaniel

I am also one of the early group who used a MasterCard that was processed by PayPal. I also have received an email from PayPal (key info quoted below), but notice that my bank has not yet processed a refund to my credit card account. As we all know, such electronic debits or credits to our credit card accounts usually are posted almost immediately. I will be rechecking over the weekend to see if PayPal has actually issued the electronic refund.

Robert

Please keep me informed as to how long it takes. According to Paypal, the money is out of our Paypal account. (Thank goodness. I have no desire to let Paypal hold onto it any longer than absolutely necessary.)

Derek

[ggendel]

And it gets curiouser and curiouser... The refund message came to my son, not me. I guess paypal couldn't tell which of us used the service (we have the same CC number).

So, I'll be ordering (again) early Monday morning.

I've had lots of problems with PayPal in the past. Once I got them so angry that they threatened to cancel my account (which they never did). I had ordered an item that hadn't been received. It took me a several days to get a response from PayPal. When I did, they told me to wait another 60 days before submitting a claim. Since my CC company only allowed me 60 days to put in a dispute with them, I did it right away. I got one heck of a nasty letter from PayPal when they found out.

If I don't occasionally need their service (since it's the only way some people take CC payment) I wouldn't use them at all.

Gary

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by ggendel

And it gets curiouser and curiouser... The refund message came to my son, not me. I guess paypal couldn't tell which of us used the service (we have the same CC number).

So, I'll be ordering (again) early Monday morning.

I've had lots of problems with PayPal in the past. Once I got them so angry that they threatened to cancel my account (which they never did). I had ordered an item that hadn't been received. It took me a several days to get a response from PayPal. When I did, they told me to wait another 60 days before submitting a claim. Since my CC company only allowed me 60 days to put in a dispute with them, I did it right away. I got one heck of a nasty letter from PayPal when they found out.

If I don't occasionally need their service (since it's the only way some people take CC payment) I wouldn't use them at all.

Gary

I'm beginning to think that they're okay for the occasional eBay order or sale, but that they're so totally anti-*SMALL*-business as to be a joke--a very dangerous one.

Derek