Librarians Threaten Boycott Over HC e-Book Terms

[KingAl]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

ummmmm, no.

Many people on the nook boards have done it.

Edited to add: You might be thinking of the 6 nooks per account limit. This is not the same thing.

[bgalbrecht]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

only flaw there is even if the library has a dozen Nooks they still need a dozen licenses for the books if they are all to have the same titles. On the Amazon setup all that needs done is to create the correct Amazon account then add, I think the number mentioned in this thread is correct, five different devices (could even be a given user's own device as long as it can read Kindle books, heck it could even be the user's own Kindle as long as they temporarily deregistered it from their account). Those devices can then share ALL the titles associated with that account.

While it may be true that the ebook has a license limiting the number of devices to which it can be sideloaded, I've never read it closely enough to verify it. I'll look to see if there is anything discussing this the next time I buy a book from B&N. The point I was trying to make is that unlocking a sideloaded NookBook (i.e., ebook with B&N DRM) does not contact a centralized DRM server. Once you've unlocked an ebook with a particular name/credit card #, any other ebooks with the same information is also unlocked. So, a library with 20 nooks could potentially buy one copy of an ebook, sideload it to all 20 nooks, and it would be undetectable outside the library. Using the same name/credit card #, they could buy a second book, sideload it to all of the nooks, and it would be instantly unlocked on all of them even if all of the ebooks have wifi disabled, and the ebooks are copied to an external SDHC card which is inserted into the nooks, and the nooks are never connected to a PC again.

It's not clear to me that this is cost effective for a library, since there's a huge upfront cost buying any ereader, but I think the refurb Nook, at about $100 with this sideloaded ebook sharing is probably the most cost effective ereader solution.

[asjogren]

Remember, the Public Libraries would only need to do this with the *difficult* Publishers. The other Publishers would be getting higher number of eBook sales through Overdrive. Amazon.com might be interested since currently they get ZERO Public Library eBook sales. Overdrive does not support the Kindle DRM scheme.

This Kindle loan idea is just a stop gap to bring some *difficult* Publishers to negotiate in good faith. By starting a pilot project and donating the first load of Kindles - Amazon.com could undermine the poor decisions some of the Publishers have made.

The DVD Video market survives quite well with Public Library loans, Blockbuster and NetFlix rentals, and retail sales. I think the the eBook market will eventually offer rental and subscription services. The Public Library does not decimate sales for the other media it loans. The Cartel should not obsess about these underfunded Public Libraries.

Imagine if the Cartel was a little more forward thinking. Get a hook into Overdrive. Whenever the hold queue is "long", or, the eBook is not available - offer to RENT the eBook NOW for $2.99 for 2 weeks. It is the same up sell that Amazon.com does with their free shipping. You can get it free if you are willing to wait. But, for a small price you can get it NOW!

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Imagine if the Cartel was a little more forward thinking. Get a hook into Overdrive. Whenever the hold queue is "long", or, the eBook is not available - offer to RENT the eBook NOW for $2.99 for 2 weeks. It is the same up sell that Amazon.com does with their free shipping. You can get it free if you are willing to wait. But, for a small price you can get it NOW!

This is an interesting idea. I'll bet people would be quite willing to pay a few bucks to get the book immediately. The downside is, of course, that there are probably people now who see a long library waiting list and buy a book at full price, so the publishers would lose those sales.

But wouldn't it be nice if a publisher implemented a few different schemes on a temporary basis, or with a few selected libraries, to see what might actually happen to sales?

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by asjogren

The DVD Video market survives quite well with Public Library loans, Blockbuster and NetFlix rentals, and retail sales. I think the the eBook market will eventually offer rental and subscription services. The Public Library does not decimate sales for the other media it loans. The Cartel should not obsess about these underfunded Public Libraries.

Imagine if the Cartel was a little more forward thinking. Get a hook into Overdrive. Whenever the hold queue is "long", or, the eBook is not available - offer to RENT the eBook NOW for $2.99 for 2 weeks. It is the same up sell that Amazon.com does with their free shipping. You can get it free if you are willing to wait. But, for a small price you can get it NOW!

This would completely gut their retail market. Which is probably why it has never been done for pbooks.

[asjogren]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

This would completely gut their retail market. Which is probably why it has never been done for pbooks.

If the eBook is available from my Public Library, but with a long hold queue, I am NOT going to buy it at $12.99. I am going to wait. But, if at the point of accepting the 1-3 month wait for a popular eBook I am offered an inexpensive 2 week rental - then I am a likely customer.

Perhaps there are not many people as cheap as I am. Or, are there???

This is a way to create customers. Not only is it cheaper than advertising, it is profitable too. The Public Library patron already wants the eBook. They certainly know where they could buy it if they wanted to buy the eBook. And if they are going through the Public Library, one already knows they are frugal.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by asjogren

If the eBook is available from my Public Library, but with a long hold queue, I am NOT going to buy it at $12.99. I am going to wait. But, if at the point of accepting the 1-3 month wait for a popular eBook I am offered an inexpensive 2 week rental - then I am a likely customer.

But the two week rental isn't offered only to people who wouldn't pay $12.99. It's offered to everyone, including those who *would* otherwise pay $12.99.

Perhaps there are not many people as cheap as I am. Or, are there???

This is a way to create customers.

The point is not to create customers. The point is to make a profit. I'm not sure that they make any profit this way.

Not only is it cheaper than advertising, it is profitable too. The Public Library patron already wants the eBook. They certainly know where they could buy it if they wanted to buy the eBook. And if they are going through the Public Library, one already knows they are frugal.

It's not profitable if it causes people to spend $2.99 rather than $12.99. It's not profitable if the *library* doesn't by the book in the first place. (And note that OD is going to have to set up a new system for this, and they will want some of the $2.99).

And of course charging for books is radically inconsistent with the mission of a library anyway.

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

And of course charging for books is radically inconsistent with the mission of a library anyway.

This!!!

[asjogren]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

It's not profitable if it causes people to spend $2.99 rather than $12.99. It's not profitable if the *library* doesn't by the book in the first place. (And note that OD is going to have to set up a new system for this, and they will want some of the $2.99).

Look, an author can make a profit on a PURCHASED $0.99 eBook at SmashWords. Last time I checked it was about half. That include all the overhead of the software development, website operation, and credit card fees.

What is fundamentally *different* between books and movies? Movies cost *huge* amounts of money to produce. And often start with buying the rights to A BOOK. DVDs are in your Public Library. Yet RedBox, Netflix, and BlockBuster rent them. And you can buy them at retail. The Public Library has killed neither rental nor sales.

What does RedBox rent movies for???

Is the Movie business *that* different? Why would a $2.99 eBook rental destroy the Publishing business when RedBox prices have not destroyed the Movie business?

The Cartel should view the Public Library as a marketing partner, not as a group of "Radical Militant Librarians".

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Is the Movie business *that* different? Why would a $2.99 eBook rental destroy the Publishing business when RedBox prices have not destroyed the Movie business?

Vastly fewer people read than watch movies. Vastly fewer movies are produced each year than books printed.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Shopaholic

LOL I'm sorry but I just had to laugh at that. It's so true!! I know I'd be pissed if that scenario happened to me.

Our Mississauga library, which just got eBooks in June 2010, is doing demos and instructional courses on what an ereader is and how to get books etc with Kobos.

Kobos will do just fine for that. But Kindles at the library? No way.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by KingAl

If you use the same credit card number (not sure how that would work for library purchases), you can put a nookbook on as many nooks as you want.

If you strip the DRM, you can put them on as many devices ePub is compatible with.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

hahahaha...freaking priceless!!

Library eBooks $15 from the Free Library of Philadelphia.
Kindle that these eBooks won't work with...priceless!

[asjogren]

Look, this discussion is not really about Kindle. And it is not a format war. Kindle is an example. Change it to Nook or Kobo or Sony or PocketBook if you like.

Amazon may have an incentive to get into a market that it has ZERO penetration - the Public Libraries around the world. Kindle does not work without a bit of effort with Overdrive. By their own actions, Amazon has locked itself out.

And frankly, I am not interested in borrowing eReaders from the Public Library. But, the Cartel is forcing either a revolt or capitulation with the Public Library with regards to eBooks.

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by asjogren

Look, this discussion is not really about Kindle. And it is not a format war. Kindle is an example. Change it to Nook or Kobo or Sony or PocketBook if you like.

Amazon may have an incentive to get into a market that it has ZERO penetration - the Public Libraries around the world. Kindle does not work without a bit of effort with Overdrive. By their own actions, Amazon has locked itself out.

And frankly, I am not interested in borrowing eReaders from the Public Library. But, the Cartel is forcing either a revolt or capitulation with the Public Library with regards to eBooks.

as an international user, i'm not sure if there are much public libraries available to me from around the world, because we don't have community/neighborhood/district libraries here. not really anyway.