Copyright is Out of Sight

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

People hear some author is great and his work is magical and hurry to darknet to download it rather than pay for his labor.

Just like they would hurry down to the lilbrary in ye olden days and "steal" a potential sale in the same way. But whichever way people read something for free, the writer still has the most to benefit from it.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HamsterRage

Actually it's murder, because it kills off their ability to make money.

No, it is rape because you are taking pleasure from someone without their permission.

[MV64]

I think copyright is important, but I don't see a point to it existing after the author dies. If I'm being generous I'd say not until the author's spouse dies (if they are outlived), just so the profits can still support his family.

This whole Mickey Mouse copyright thing is just out of control corporatism.

[Giggleton]

Here's a very simplified model for book distribution in a copyright free world.

1. The download and reading availability of a book in its entirety without prior purchase of the book.

2. A system for the reader to purchase the book, if after reading they deem that the book is worthy of purchasing.

2a. This could involve a simple link to an account (paypal or otherwise) within the book, that when clicked transfers monies.

2b. Or It could involve a link that when clicked transfers monies from a mobiread? account into the independent authors account, the monies in the mobiread account would have been deposited earlier by the reader, perhaps as a monthly subscription fee.

3. A system for the easy transfer of books downloaded from mobiread between readers, not specifically through the mobiread site itself.

3a. For instance, an app created for an ereader that allows you to send book files to a number of people on a list that is stored within the app.

I've read a few ebook patents but they make my head spin I imagine this stuff is already covered by some patents, but the idea of letting readers read books before deciding to purchase might be novel, and it is actually the main thing that is needed for the system to work.

I used mobiread here as an example, and with the hopes that the experiment will start here. It has to start somewhere right?

The main idea behind this is that if every ebook contained within it the ability to send monies to the creator of the content, even books distributed outside the original site of distribution, readers would still have the option to pay for the content that they receive. There would actually be no need for pirate sites anymore.

This idea could start small and then scale up, but for now I think it would be good to focus on what's needed to get it working on a small scale. I also have ideas for large scale implementation.

Basically, what we need is a few decent authors to participate in the experiment. I think it should be a mixture of mainstream and independent authors.

I've read a bit about how personalizing the connection between readers and the author can go a long way towards the purchasing of a book, therefore every book should include a nice author picture.

Do you think this is worth pursuing? Please don't respond if your only contribution will be that it won't work because people won't purchase the books. We are assuming that they will.

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

@Enkidu I like your avatar too, Futurama inspired? Very nice greens, did you make it yourself?

Nah, it's from here :
www.worth1000.com/
They make cool photoshoped pics like this :




But I thought of Futurama when I saw it too...
BTW, is that your cat ? I love that little pink nose...
Surprised I haven't yet seen you in the cat lover's thread...

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

2. A system for the reader to purchase the book, if after reading they deem that the book is worthy of purchasing.
2a. This could involve a simple link to an account (paypal or otherwise) within the book, that when clicked transfers monies.

Several apps I use have a PayPal donate button or a PayPal adress in the About window for donations and are free otherwise... Similar to your idea.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

Several apps I use have a PayPal donate button or a PayPal adress in the About window for donations and are free otherwise... Similar to your idea.

Yeah, some of my favorite apps are donation ware, some of my most favorite apps are free ware. Go figure. Books fall into their own category though wouldn't you agree? But in a way they don't, what is an app but an expression of code? What is a book but an expression of an idea?

This is from that essay collection by Doctorow that spellbanisher mentioned earlier,

"I don't think it's practical to charge for copies of electronic works. Bits aren't ever going to get harder to copy. So we'll have to figure out how to charge for something else. That's not to say you can't charge for a copy-able bit, but you sure can't force a reader to pay for access to information anymore."

Doctorow writes quite a bit about sales from things auxiliary to the text itself. I think we can all agree that this might not work for the independent artist. Which is my favorite kind of artist. And their art is the kind I am most interested in preserving as we move beyond copyright.

Maybe this distribution method won't work for mainstream artists, maybe it won't work for those whose purpose of creation is the profit motive, maybe it doesn't need to. But I am confident that it will work and work well for those who wish to see their books distributed to a wide audience as easily as possible and then perhaps watch happily as a small but adequate portion of their audience compensates them for their contribution.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

BTW, is that your cat ? I love that little pink nose...
Surprised I haven't yet seen you in the cat lover's thread...

Yes that's one of my cat's, Niko. That picture was when he was just a baby! lol.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

2. A system for the reader to purchase the book, if after reading they deem that the book is worthy of purchasing.

2a. This could involve a simple link to an account (paypal or otherwise) within the book, that when clicked transfers monies.

2b. Or It could involve a link that when clicked transfers monies from a mobiread? account into the independent authors account, the monies in the mobiread account would have been deposited earlier by the reader, perhaps as a monthly subscription fee.

I don't think that would work. You would need to either base it on the UK library model, where writers get a few pence each time their book is downloaded (through taxation), or have them funded through adverts inserted into the book (and product placement, etc). Or just price them at second hand paperback levels and forget about the people who were never going to buy it anyway. Second hand paperback buyers are a vast untapped (by publishers) market that is never going to pay new hardback prices for their reading no matter how much publishers stamp their feet and cry about stealing cars.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I don't think that would work. You would need to either base it on the UK library model, where writers get a few pence each time their book is downloaded (through taxation), or have them funded through adverts inserted into the book (and product placement, etc). Or just price them at second hand paperback levels and forget about the people who were never going to buy it anyway. Second hand paperback buyers are a vast untapped (by publishers) market that is never going to pay new hardback prices for their reading no matter how much publishers stamp their feet and cry about stealing cars.

Well if the government wants to get into the publishing game, I'd be all for that. As long as anyone is able to publish and everyone can act as a censor of the garbage.

What I am saying though, is that it is going to have to work. The publishing industry has historically been propped up by the public's inability to copy books. Now that everyone can function as their own library and bookstore if they desire...

The internet was designed to share information. We can realize the internet's potential, or toss the old net out and build a new one designed around control of information. Which one do you prefer?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

The publishing industry has historically been propped up by the public's inability to copy books. Now that everyone can function as their own library and bookstore if they desire...

:

I can remember seeing lots of photocopied books for sale at comic marts in the 80s. Rare books, not latest releases, but they did exist.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Just like they would hurry down to the lilbrary in ye olden days and "steal" a potential sale in the same way. But whichever way people read something for free, the writer still has the most to benefit from it.

a run to the library is just that and a borrow is temporary. A download comes comfortably to you and is yours forever.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by pietrocrazy

Copyright is not theft. Even most people who are pro-copyright agree that it is not theft. Even most people who think copyright infringement is morally wrong don't think it's theft. Even the Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that copyright infringement is not theft.

The US Supreme Court in MGM v Grokster (2005) Justice Breyer said the following in his concurring decision:

No one disputes that “reward to the author or artist serves to induce release to the public of the products of his creative genius.” United States v. Paramount Pictures, Inc., 334 U. S. 131, 158 (1948). And deliberate unlawful copying is no less an unlawful taking of property than garden-variety theft.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Fbone

The US Supreme Court in MGM v Grokster (2005) Justice Breyer said the following in his concurring decision:

I don't know much about America, but wouldn't that be over-ruled by what the US government said in 2010 about the subject?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...-are-bogus.ars

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

a run to the library is just that and a borrow is temporary. A download comes comfortably to you and is yours forever.

Only if you choose to keep it. Anyone who was more than just a reader wouldn't want ebooks anyway they would want hardbacks. Different market entirely.