Amazon, B&N, Kobo: iOS aps to be pulled in June

[stonetools]

It's simple economic parasitism.
__________________

Well, what you call parasitism, others might simply call-capitalism
Again, If Apple cannot get away with it, they will certainly pay. I think the vehemence of the reaction to my posts, including the many tasteless ad hominems, is because people think that Apple CAN "get away" with it. In the end, if the booksellers, publishers, and Apple can work it out, it will happen. I think its 50-50 that it will happen.
This seems to be a rerun of the introduction of the App Store. Go back 3 years and the discussions were the same.

"The App Store will certainly fail because Apple doesn't know what its doing and Steve Jobs is a megalomaniac"
"The Apple policy toward developers is UNCONSCIONABLE. Its too much restrictive".
"There is NO way that developers can make a living giving up 30 per cent of their revenue to Apple. Developers will abandon the platform in droves and Apple's customers will suffer"
"How does Apple's App Store add value to what the developers are doing? The developers should get paid 95 per cent at least, or Apple should host these programs for free, because without these apps, no one will buy these devices"
"Everyone will (or should) leave Apple because of its hateful policies. Everyone will go to Windows, Nokia, RIM, or Android. The open source Symbian platform will flourish"
Did I miss any?

OK , fast forward to today.
The IOS App Store is the largest software store on the planet. When people use the phrase " App Store" , that's the App Store they are referring to.
Developers are clamoring to get INTO the App Store. When they get rejected, they complain. That's because developers make far more money in the App Store than anywhere else.
The App Store's revenue is SIXTEEN TIMES that of the Android Market.
The phrase " There's an app for that" has become as much a part of everyday speech as "software", "PC", and "Google it".
We'll see in three years whether Apple can make this policy change work. They have the track record. Apple may fail. But that isn't the way to bet.

[M0zza]

Stonetools,

Your previous long post I stopped reading at

The IOS platform IS different, commercially, from those other platforms.

As you still haven't answered why.

And now you are saying that it is OK for Apple to be doing this because 3 years ago they did something that was less unconscionable and got away with it for some people.

What you don't see is that some people boycotted or left iOS after these events. And more will leave after this. You only have to read the forums at other sites to see that.

You do not seem to understand that the people here are some of the customers who will get shafted if this goes through. You have not mentioned them at all! Your only thoughts are for Saint Jobs.

[Horemheb]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The IOS platform IS different

You got this one right. Because IOS is the Cisco OS for routers and other network devices (and is a much much older platform than iOS). iOS on the other hand is no different at all from Android and Blackberry it does perfectly the same. I am pretty sure that you wanted to refer to iOS. I wonder how much Apple pays for the training of its reps if seemingly even the correct name of the platform is difficult to remember.

[elcreative]

Wow... so much hatred of one company... I bet Microsoft loves you all from moving them off the Evil Empire No One slot... ever thought of getting a life... don't bother replying, my last look at this thread as you all spend some much time going round in ever decreasing circles without saying anything new... personally, if I consider getting an iPad or similar then I'll wait for facts rather than innuendo, rumour, personal attacks etc...

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Well, what you call parasitism, others might simply call-capitalism
Again, If Apple cannot get away with it, they will certainly pay. I think the vehemence of the reaction to my posts, including the many tasteless ad hominems, is because people think that Apple CAN "get away" with it.

People have moved onto commenting about you and hazarding a guess as to who employs you due to the very simple point that in this whole discussion all you have done is parrot apple talking points and completely ignore the far more normal perspective which is that of a consumer.

"The App Store will certainly fail because Apple doesn't know what its doing and Steve Jobs is a megalomaniac"
"The Apple policy toward developers is UNCONSCIONABLE. Its too much restrictive".
"There is NO way that developers can make a living giving up 30 per cent of their revenue to Apple. Developers will abandon the platform in droves and Apple's customers will suffer"

You aren't comparing like with like, the situation for developers back then and for some magazines now is that they aren't dealing with fixed costs so could make the trade-off for a smaller chunk of a larger market, but that simply isn't the case for many of the companies affected by this new change such as amazon, b&n and most of the streaming services because those all have fixed charges and other companies (the publishers and music industry) who have no actual incentive to renegotiate.

The phrase " There's an app for that" has become as much a part of everyday speech as "software", "PC", and "Google it".

Weird really, when I hear that horrible phrase "there's an app for that" I tend to think that its just another admission of the limitation of the ios platform and to a lesser extent the other main mobile platforms that so much basic functionality is missing by default that apps are needed to patch the gaps.

[Worldwalker]

We're not saying anything new because the Apple representative hasn't replied to the questions we've already asked, nor addressed the points we've brought up.

It's not a question of some people loving Apple and hating Microsoft, and some people hating Apple and loving Microsoft. The only love I'm seeing is on the side of the Apple partisans (at least one of whom appears to be an official or quasi-official representative). I think the problem is that those people see everything through the lens of their partisanship -- if someone doesn't agree with them, it isn't because they disagree about technology, and certainly not because of a distrust of all large companies and their goals; it can only be "love" as the partisans feel it, except directed at the wrong target. Like the teenagers who believe any criticism of their writing proves the other person is jealous of them (the best response to that I ever saw: "then why don't I criticize thegood stories?) they have to believe in personal motives because they know no others.

I don't think those people can actually understand technical concerns or simple evaluation of competing products. For them, it's all about feelings and emotions, and their "love" for a company which does, admittedly, know they exist -- but as "sale units", not as the fervent admirers they see themselves as. (of course, the ones being paid, in cash or egoboo, by Apple to push their products and their point of view have their own rewards, but their very lack of honesty makes all but the most basic discussion impossible) Besides, "love" versus "hate" is merely a difference of opinions, which makes it much easier to dismiss dissenting opinions; saying "dingus A runs 20% slower than competing dingus B" isn't open to refutation (unless, of course, it's just a lie). So hate is a safer motive to ascribe to one's enemies than any technical or business concern. And if you shout the Big Lie loud enough and long enough, people will start to believe you.

Except, of course, that it's still not true.

[Crowl]

Comical really, customers raising a valid complaint about a change that will make products that they already own worse than they are right now is somehow being labelled as hatred. I don't know about most people, but if I hated a company then I certainly wouldn't buy any of their products.

[david_e]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

He is an iDevice user who has finally understood Apple's new policies! How can he expected to get out anything but a fake laugh in his desperation?

The only ones left laughing are the ones who work for Google.

Yes, I am an iDevice user in a big way. I've never had a negative experience with any Apple product. I believe this is why I see value in what they are doing where others don't. I don't believe this means that all of you are wrong, just a different point of view. I also won't experience any negative impact, no matter what the final outcome of this issue is.

I made a rather lengthy post explaining my thoughts and why I felt things would work out positively for iPad users but, with the exception of the local representative for the proletariat, it went generally unnoticed.

I understand the general anxiety and anger at the lack of facts as to what is to happen in the end. I understand the disappointment in realizing that your experience may be different than what you imagined. What I don't understand is why you feel i should be experiencing desperation.

[stonetools]

We're not saying anything new because the Apple representative hasn't replied to the questions we've already asked, nor addressed the points we've brought up.

I think I've replied to all your points but you haven't heard me because you believe Apple is TEH EVUUL and Apple's policy cannot be justified. If you go over the posts you'll see that I have replied to all your points but that you don't like my answers.Well hey, we can disagree on that. I don't believe folks had to personally insult me by claiming that I was being paid by Apple or that I was Steve Jobs , ahem, boyfriend , but hey, small things amuse small minds.The market will sort it all out in the end.
I have pointed out these same arguments have been made against Apple's policies regarding the App Store in the past and the market agreed with Apple. I believe that this will happen again. If the market decides that Apple's policy is OK and actually adds value, then all the vitriol poured out by Apple detractors won't really matter.
If I am wrong and Apple withdraws, then I will say I am wrong about iOS ( thanks for the correction)

[Horemheb]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I have replied to all your points

Actually you have not. There were several points you have not answered but I think you know that just as everyone else here knows. You did not answer the question of added value in real world scenarios. Nor did you answer the point about the fact that even if there was added value by Apple (which of course there is not) it would be irrelevant because the product is the content not the purchase of the content. So it would be just irrelevant if the purchase of the content on one of the 4-5 platforms we do shopping on was actually somehow better. Because on the one hand purchase is much much less important then actually accessing the content and on the other hand we buy content on several different platforms as well as we access the very same content from several different platforms. So any one platform of the many is just not a factor because the product is the content. So to summarize: neither is there added value by Apple (and you failed to point out any) nor would it matter even if there was.

I don't believe you had to personally insult me by claiming that I was being paid by Apple

A few things on this:
1. I think you have every reason to hope for us to believe that you are actually being paid for what you are doing in this topic. If you are not even paid for this, can you imagine what we should think then about you?
2. The claim in itself that someone is paid by Apple is not an insult. How could it be? Every company needs workers.
3. On the other hand it is unethical and pathetic that Apple sends its reps to these forums to spread propaganda.
4. A couple of people explained it to you why you are seen as an Apple rep. I personally think that by now it is hard to see your activities any other way. See the first point.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think I've replied to all your points but you haven't heard me because you believe Apple is TEH EVUUL and Apple's policy cannot be justified. If you go over the posts you'll see that I have replied to all your points but that you don't like my answers.Well hey, we can disagree on that. I don't believe folks had to personally insult me by claiming that I was being paid by Apple or that I was Steve Jobs , ahem, boyfriend , but hey, small things amuse small minds.The market will sort it all out in the end.
I have pointed out these same arguments have been made against Apple's policies regarding the App Store in the past and the market agreed with Apple. I believe that this will happen again. If the market decides that Apple's policy is OK and actually adds value, then all the vitriol poured out by Apple detractors won't really matter.
If I am wrong and Apple withdraws, then I will say I am wrong about iOS ( thanks for the correction)

The problem is that you haven't justified it.

Your point seems to be that "Oh noes! People can spend money using their iDevices without Apple getting a cut! This must be stopped!" is a valid argument.

No one is arguing that Apple doesn't deserve a cut of sales made through their infrastructure (the IAP system). However, that doesn't mean that they should get a cut of every purchase made by someone using an iDevice.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think I've replied to all your points but you haven't heard me because you believe Apple is TEH EVUUL and Apple's policy cannot be justified.

I can't seem to find the posts where you answered my questions. Could you please be so kind as to link them?

I do find it amusing, in a small way, that you accepted the term "the Apple representative" as meaning you. Not that we didn't know (it's kinda obvious ... c'mon, even Microsoft did a better job of astroturfing, back in the Windows vs. OS/2 days) but it's nice to have it acknowledged.

And you still can't get past that "hate" thing. I wonder if that's official? Is it in the manual? "Never acknowledge that anyone who disagrees with you has a valid technical concern, or any motivation other than an irrational and emotional one. Misdirect attention by saying your opponents "hate Apple" so that you never have to respond to the issues they raise."

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

I can't seem to find the posts where you answered my questions. Could you please be so kind as to link them?

I do find it amusing, in a small way, that you accepted the term "the Apple representative" as meaning you. Not that we didn't know (it's kinda obvious ... c'mon, even Microsoft did a better job of astroturfing, back in the Windows vs. OS/2 days) but it's nice to have it acknowledged.

And you still can't get past that "hate" thing. I wonder if that's official? Is it in the manual? "Never acknowledge that anyone who disagrees with you has a valid technical concern, or any motivation other than an irrational and emotional one. Misdirect attention by saying your opponents "hate Apple" so that you never have to respond to the issues they raise."

Eh, you're just an Apple hater.

[wyndslash]

*wiggles around like a worm in an Apple*

[Dopedangel]

With ipod and Iphone their was really was no competition so Apple was able to dictate terms now I don't think they will have the same kind of clout. With the number of Android devices coming up plus Blackberry is supposedly going to support Android apps in its tablet as well.