Kindle, We Have a Problem: Amazon's Pricing Policies Affect Publishers - Page 2

karunaji · 02-24-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Not in the US. AT&T charges $10/mb for ad hoc data use. One of the few cheap plans is Boost, which will charge you $10/month for unlimited data. That's $120/year, which is almost the same cost as the Kindle itself.

The potential comics lover customer in question is most likely already using some kind of data plan. For him the additional cost would be zero. You can swap SIM cards between different devices, you know.

Quote:

So, as I've mentioned previously, for some of us paying for data is a losing proposition and an unwanted complication.

Don't worry. =) I am only proposing more choices unlike the current dictator system.

Quote:

And, as I keep telling you, no one is going to pass the proposed cost savings on to consumers. No one, nobody, personne, it's not happening. It didn't happen when Amazon boosted the royalty rate on magazines from 30% to 70%, and it won't happen if you put your own SIM into your Kindle.

You are in denial. At this moment it is not even the question of lower prices but the possibility of a publisher even considering Kindle as a platform for comics.

Quote:

By the way, I suggest you read Daniel Ariely's Predictably Irrational to figure out another reason why Amazon and B&N will resist dropping the free (to the consumer) downloads. Believe it or not, most people would actually rather have "free" over paying $0.02 per mb....

Sure, Amazon can focus only on this group but I feel that in this way they will miss a lot of opportunities. I have read about Amazon plans to sell Kindle apps (as Kindle is a really nice hardware, perfect screen, long battery life) but nothing has come out yet because their projections that bandwidth use can be kept at minimum are not realistic.

It can be used is some many innovative ways that no one could imagine before.

queentess · 02-24-2011, 12:55 PM

Solution: publisher raises prices to reflect additional costs from delivery fees.

That's what the publisher should be doing, anyway. In order to make a profit, you have to calculate in ALL your costs, including delivery or storage charges, and then mark-up your product accordingly.

karunaji · 02-24-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by queentess

Solution: publisher raises prices to reflect additional costs from delivery fees.

The problem is that the additional costs as proposed by Amazon are overpriced.

Japanese comics usually cost $2 per chapter and you read one each day while riding the train to your work. Kindle delivery costs would increase the price up to $4. It would cost you about $400 more per year. The separate data plan as researched by Kali Yuga now looks acceptable.

=X= · 02-24-2011, 01:48 PM

This is where old technology needs to be updated. It's silly that graphic novels, comic books are so huge. The reason files are so huge is because they are designed for print and not as ebooks. Naturally most comic based books will be bigger than text base, but they can really reduce the size by using SVG, text and the right compressing (PNG, JPG) where it applies.

=X=

snipenekkid · 02-24-2011, 04:29 PM

actually most graphics formats are very compressed already. SVG is potentially interesting but it's not always that compressed but once compressed with some sort of ZIP app then it can become quite small.

And to those bemoaning the costs to send the files, a 12MB+ file is far larger than a 400k-1MB file as most novels are in size. The problem these graphics novel and comics folks seem to have is the file size simply is too large for the current delivery system so yeah it would seem prudent for them to invest in making their files SMALLER and/or publishing less frequently or have an over the web only delivery system. It's more a technical issue than anything else but I see no problem with the increased costs for such large files.

And no larger reference or text books don't have the same issue even if as large or more because the cost of delivery is not significant to the retail price. And that is the rub, the retail price compared to delivery. I have gone through this with customers...a $5 item which weighs 20lbs. costs far more to ship than a $100 8oz. item...the cost is not germane it's the sheer size.

Lemurion · 02-24-2011, 07:28 PM

I'd go with CBZ over CBR, most mobile devices have better ZIP support than RAR support.

Having said that, the real issue holding CBZ/CBR back is the fact that because the file is essentially an image archive, it's very difficult to apply DRM to it. Personally, I think that's a strength, but most publishers disagree. It's a pity, because it's easily the best format for comics.

It makes me wonder if BN's discontinuance of the 3G Nook wasn't a wise choice. No 3G means delivery over Wi-Fi, which is much cheaper from all perspectives than 3G.

karunaji · 02-24-2011, 11:26 PM

Today downloading 12 MB over 3G is nothing. It will take a little bit over a minute with 1Mbit connection. While I don't support wasteful increase of data (no more 100 MB printer drivers, please), pretending that we live in the world of bandwidth scarcity will not help Amazon in the long term. Especially when the large part of would-be customers can also use Wi-Fi connection in case 3G is not available in the area.

My parents' house is deep in the woods where the signal is so bad that they can't even use a cell phone when it is raining. There is no fixed line available, so my brother bought a 3G yagi antenna on ebay, connected it to the 3G modem + WiFi router. And voila, now they have a sustained >1Mbit connection that they can even watch movies online.

RolandD · 02-25-2011, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I'd go with CBZ over CBR, most mobile devices have better ZIP support than RAR support.

Having said that, the real issue holding CBZ/CBR back is the fact that because the file is essentially an image archive, it's very difficult to apply DRM to it. Personally, I think that's a strength, but most publishers disagree. It's a pity, because it's easily the best format for comics.

It makes me wonder if BN's discontinuance of the 3G Nook wasn't a wise choice. No 3G means delivery over Wi-Fi, which is much cheaper from all perspectives than 3G.

I'm confused, does the delivery surcharge apply to all purchases, or just those over 3G?

murraypaul · 02-25-2011, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =X=

This is where old technology needs to be updated. It's silly that graphic novels, comic books are so huge. The reason files are so huge is because they are designed for print and not as ebooks. Naturally most comic based books will be bigger than text base, but they can really reduce the size by using SVG, text and the right compressing (PNG, JPG) where it applies.

The reason the files are bigger is that they contain a large number of high resolution images. They are already compressed.

murraypaul · 02-25-2011, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Having said that, the real issue holding CBZ/CBR back is the fact that because the file is essentially an image archive, it's very difficult to apply DRM to it.

ePub is just a zip file, hasn't stopped anyone applying DRM to that!

HarryT · 02-25-2011, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandD

I'm confused, does the delivery surcharge apply to all purchases, or just those over 3G?

To all purchases. Essentially it's the cost OF delivering it over 3G regardless of whether it actually IS delivered over 3G. The only alternative would be to have a "surcharge" at the time that it was delivered. Imagine the case where a Kindle owner initially bought a WiFi Kindle, bought a load of books, and then a couple of years later, bought a 3G Kindle and re-downloaded all their books. Applying the charge at that point would really be unworkable - it has to be done at the time of purchase.

mr ploppy · 02-25-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

Having said that, the real issue holding CBZ/CBR back is the fact that because the file is essentially an image archive, it's very difficult to apply DRM to it. Personally, I think that's a strength, but most publishers disagree. It's a pity, because it's easily the best format for comics.

I don't think it would be that difficult to apply a generated password to open the zip/rar, or scramble the images up enough to make them unreadable. Topaz is also based around images, and those have DRM.

I don't have any at hand to try, but if you open a DRM infected epub with Winzip/rar, can you extract the cover image from it?

EowynCarter · 02-25-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I don't think it would be that difficult to apply a generated password to open the zip/rar, or scramble the images up enough to make them unreadable. Topaz is also based around images, and those have DRM.

I don't have any at hand to try, but if you open a DRM infected epub with Winzip/rar, can you extract the cover image from it?

I remember opening an ePub, where the images where messed.

DiapDealer · 02-25-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I don't have any at hand to try, but if you open a DRM infected epub with Winzip/rar, can you extract the cover image from it?

No.
Well technically you can extract it, but it's still not viewable.

mr ploppy · 02-25-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

No.
Well technically you can extract it, but it's still not viewable.

Then presumably you could have DRM with a CBR?

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02-24-2011, 12:55 PM	#17
queentess Reading is sexy Posts: 1,303 Karma: 544517 Join Date: Apr 2009 Device: none	Solution: publisher raises prices to reflect additional costs from delivery fees. That's what the publisher should be doing, anyway. In order to make a profit, you have to calculate in ALL your costs, including delivery or storage charges, and then mark-up your product accordingly.

02-24-2011, 01:48 PM	#19
=X= Wizard Posts: 3,671 Karma: 12205348 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Galaxy S, Nook w/CM7	This is where old technology needs to be updated. It's silly that graphic novels, comic books are so huge. The reason files are so huge is because they are designed for print and not as ebooks. Naturally most comic based books will be bigger than text base, but they can really reduce the size by using SVG, text and the right compressing (PNG, JPG) where it applies. =X=

02-24-2011, 04:29 PM	#20
snipenekkid Banned Posts: 760 Karma: 51034 Join Date: Feb 2009	actually most graphics formats are very compressed already. SVG is potentially interesting but it's not always that compressed but once compressed with some sort of ZIP app then it can become quite small. And to those bemoaning the costs to send the files, a 12MB+ file is far larger than a 400k-1MB file as most novels are in size. The problem these graphics novel and comics folks seem to have is the file size simply is too large for the current delivery system so yeah it would seem prudent for them to invest in making their files SMALLER and/or publishing less frequently or have an over the web only delivery system. It's more a technical issue than anything else but I see no problem with the increased costs for such large files. And no larger reference or text books don't have the same issue even if as large or more because the cost of delivery is not significant to the retail price. And that is the rub, the retail price compared to delivery. I have gone through this with customers...a $5 item which weighs 20lbs. costs far more to ship than a $100 8oz. item...the cost is not germane it's the sheer size.

02-24-2011, 07:28 PM	#21
Lemurion eReader Posts: 2,750 Karma: 4968470 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Note 5; PW3; Nook HD+; ChuWi Hi12; iPad	I'd go with CBZ over CBR, most mobile devices have better ZIP support than RAR support. Having said that, the real issue holding CBZ/CBR back is the fact that because the file is essentially an image archive, it's very difficult to apply DRM to it. Personally, I think that's a strength, but most publishers disagree. It's a pity, because it's easily the best format for comics. It makes me wonder if BN's discontinuance of the 3G Nook wasn't a wise choice. No 3G means delivery over Wi-Fi, which is much cheaper from all perspectives than 3G.

02-24-2011, 11:26 PM	#22
karunaji Evangelist Posts: 421 Karma: 1033566 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Latvia Device: Kindle 3 Wifi, Bookeen Opus	Today downloading 12 MB over 3G is nothing. It will take a little bit over a minute with 1Mbit connection. While I don't support wasteful increase of data (no more 100 MB printer drivers, please), pretending that we live in the world of bandwidth scarcity will not help Amazon in the long term. Especially when the large part of would-be customers can also use Wi-Fi connection in case 3G is not available in the area. My parents' house is deep in the woods where the signal is so bad that they can't even use a cell phone when it is raining. There is no fixed line available, so my brother bought a 3G yagi antenna on ebay, connected it to the 3G modem + WiFi router. And voila, now they have a sustained >1Mbit connection that they can even watch movies online.