Copyright is Out of Sight

[Grimm]

I think I'm done with this subject anyway, it's really nothing more than a thinly veiled excuse for wanting something for nothing whilst cloaking it in pretentious ideals, with a very misguided and inflated sense of "enlightenment." The future of the species? Really? Really?

[spellbanisher]

I think there are some very intelligent and sincere proponents of copyright reform, among them Cory Doctorow and Lawrence Lessig. The part about saving the species was a bit pretentious, but the absolute principle of property has allowed for unnecessary suffering in the world. For instance, pharmaceutical companies have used western governments and the World Trade Organization to prevent the prevention of cheap and generic drugs for the treatment of aids. Western governments have also withheld foreign aid when African nations have used information obtained on how to make drugs for aids because it violates the patents of the pharmaceutical companies. Even though Africans couldn't possibly afford more expensive aids drugs, pharmaceutical companies still do all they can, with government backing (or is it the other way around) to deny the production of cheap drugs and the sharing of information on the principle of property. Instead, In their quest to save Africa, Western countries spend billions on drugs that Africans could make themselves for a fraction of the cost.

[spellbanisher]

To be fair, I should add that in 2001 there was the DOHA pact that was supposed to ease Intellectual Property restrictions in Third World Nations. But over the last ten years pharmaceutical companies and western governments have undermined and reduced the purview of the DOHA.

[wyndslash]

@spell: i guess for me it's more of a situation-basis. i mean, when it comes to saving lives, i'm definitely all for doing everything to see that people have the medicine they need, even though it means undermining those so-called copyrights. but i guess, speaking from the other side of the fence, the pharmaceutical companies also have R&D costs to recoup.

i have mixed opinions when it comes to africa, but most of it deals with their recent political..."activities".

[Grimm]

There is a world of difference between pirtating ebooks and the pharmaceutical situation. This example is going to far too much of an extreme.

[spellbanisher]

But they are not going to recoup any R&D costs from Africa, because the Africans that need treatment are too poor to pay for the drugs at market prices. If I recall correctly, Pharmaceuticals argued that some countries were selling or trying to give the information to companies in India and China.

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

But they are not going to recoup any R&D costs from Africa, because the Africans that need treatment are too poor to pay for the drugs at market prices. If I recall correctly, Pharmaceuticals argued that some countries were selling or trying to give the information to companies in India and China.

indeed.

as long as human beings are alive, there will always be conflict :O

but let's go back to the subject of books xD

remember when the fake harry potter books came out? :P

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by Grimm

There is a world of difference between pirtating ebooks and the pharmaceutical situation. This example is going to far too much of an extreme.

My point was not to equate pirating ebooks with the pharmaceutical situation, although that is how it appeared. I was just noting how extreme people can be when it comes to the principle of property, often choosing defending their property rights over human life.

I always find it amusing when western companies complain about bootlegging and pirating in third world countries. The "estimated losses to piracy" are always a complete joke because most of the people in third world countries would never be able to afford these companies movies or music or books. The fact is, bootlegging actually provides jobs and entrepreneurial opportunities for hundreds of thousands of extremely impoverished people in the third world. I know its terrible because the original creators aren't seeing a dime of that money, but when you and your family are starving your gonna do whatever it takes to survive.

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by wyndslash

remember when the fake harry potter books came out? :P

Those books were better than the originals! That's why J.K. Rowling is so vehemently against fan fiction!

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

I always find it amusing when western companies complain about bootlegging and pirating in third world countries. The "estimated losses to piracy" are always a complete joke because most of the people in third world countries would never be able to afford these companies movies or music or books. The fact is, bootlegging actually provides jobs and entrepreneurial opportunities for hundreds of thousands of extremely impoverished people in the third world. I know its terrible because the original creators aren't seeing a dime of that money, but when you and your family are starving your gonna do whatever it takes to survive.

very true. i don't support piracy, but when you are starving and your bones are sticking out of your body (a common sight here), you do whatever you can to provide for your family. the roads here in the city are littered with homeless people and starving children. i am very lucky to have a roof over my head and three meals.

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by wyndslash

very true. i don't support piracy, but when you are starving and your bones are sticking out of your body (a common sight here), you do whatever you can to provide for your family. the roads here in the city are littered with homeless people and starving children. i am very lucky to have a roof over my head and three meals.

You live in Detroit? JK

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

You live in Detroit? JK

LOL. no, i live in manila.

[spellbanisher]

Manila is bad, but Zamboanga is much worse.

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

Manila is bad, but Zamboanga is much worse.

yep, that's where all the fighting is going on. a friend of mine came from near that part of the country and she always said that she had gotten used to going to school with the thought that any time, they could have a bomb alert.

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

My point was not to equate pirating ebooks with the pharmaceutical situation, although that is how it appeared. I was just noting how extreme people can be when it comes to the principle of property, often choosing defending their property rights over human life.

I always find it amusing when western companies complain about bootlegging and pirating in third world countries. The "estimated losses to piracy" are always a complete joke because most of the people in third world countries would never be able to afford these companies movies or music or books. The fact is, bootlegging actually provides jobs and entrepreneurial opportunities for hundreds of thousands of extremely impoverished people in the third world. I know its terrible because the original creators aren't seeing a dime of that money, but when you and your family are starving your gonna do whatever it takes to survive.

No argument with that here. We had local Iraqis on-base with their own shops that sold bootleg movies to us while I was deployed there. $2 per DVD and they had EVERYTHING; wall shelves full of single DVDs, boxsets of entire multi-season runs of tv series, EVERYTHING. If it came out in the theater it would end up on bootlegged DVD on base within a few days of hitting the theaters in the USA. I'm not ashamed at all to say I bought my share of DVDs and boxed sets. These guys were making a buck to feed their families (for the most part, some were more shady but we won't talk about that) and we got a bit of home by watching movies brand new and old, even if the new stuff was mostly crappy "camera-smuggled-into-the-theater" copies.

The Base leadeship knew about it, hell they shopped in these little stores too. It helped with building a rapport with the locals (which is ALWAYS helpful when a lot of locals want you dead) and everyone got something out of it.

But yes, while I get your point, going back to the original point of this thread, I simply disagree with most of what the OP had to say and I certainly still think his lack of willingness to admit what he does for a living (aside from his incredibly cryptic and more than a little haughty "a little of this and a little of that" non-answer) gives the overall impression that he is young and unemployed (likely spoiled) and simply wants things for free; if he can wax philosophical and try to sound enlightened doing it (albeit poorly), then so be it.