Lending ebooks? A view from the FSF

Farhad · 02-21-2011, 06:52 PM

Hi,

I have recently read the article Lending: A solved problem by John Sullivan, and I would like to share it with you and ask for your reaction.

Personally, I wholeheartedly agree with Sullivan, but I would like hear the arguments of those who would disagree with him.

Thanks a lot,

Farhad

Giggleton · 02-21-2011, 07:59 PM

What's to disagree with? We've solved the problem of transferring knowledge from one mind to another across the physical space, at least for those with access to the grid.

Connecting those who aren't connected is the real problem.

Farhad · 02-21-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

What's to disagree with? (...)
Connecting those who aren't connected is the real problem.

So you are saying that all the users of Kindles, Nooks, and "support lending" devices are not *really* connected

Just kiddin

Namekuseijin · 02-21-2011, 08:49 PM

Awesome read, all very good and fair points. The FSF are very persuasive folks and have done a wonderful job starting and promoting free software which eventually led to Gnu/Linux and Android by extension.

Unfortunately, a book is not software, though both are written down in some language. Software is useful, art is not: software can help find a cure for cancer, a book will only imagine about a world without cancer. Software benefits from many contributors squashing bugs and polishing the interface, a book gets bogged down by too many conflicting views and styles leading to a confusing plot.

Software is essentially a mechanical work, a book is a creative endeavour. Software is utilitarian, a book serves no purpose other than offering new points of view and experiences...

Summing up, what may be good for software may not necessarily be good for books (art), namely that authors should work for free expecting others contributions to make its work better.

That said, I'm totally pro the FSF view that lending as implemented in the nook and kindle are ridiculously cumbersome.

Xenophon · 02-22-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

[SNIP]
Software is essentially a mechanical work, a book is a creative endeavour.
[SNIP]

This is a comment made mostly by folks who have never written any significant pieces of software. I've been a semi-pro musician; I've been a professional programmer; these days I'm a software researcher. Trust me, writing software is most definitely a creative endeavor!

That said, I have little argument with the rest of the post.

Xenophon

Pablo · 02-22-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon

This is a comment made mostly by folks who have never written any significant pieces of software. I've been a semi-pro musician; I've been a professional programmer; these days I'm a software researcher. Trust me, writing software is most definitely a creative endeavor!

That said, I have little argument with the rest of the post.

Xenophon

I was about to comment on the same lines when I read your post. Totally agree. Software is art.

Namekuseijin · 02-22-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenophon

This is a comment made mostly by folks who have never written any significant pieces of software. I've been a semi-pro musician; I've been a professional programmer; these days I'm a software researcher. Trust me, writing software is most definitely a creative endeavor!

oh, I'm a software developer. I came into the field because I found the subject of computer science fascinating. Knuth, the Bach of computer programming (rather than organ programming)...

Unfortunately, your daily IT job has no science nor glamour about it at all: it's just about mindlessly squashing bugs reported by users or building yet another form/report using lame commercial tools chosen on the basis of whose manager gets more buck for it. Menial creativeless work using standardized tools handled by standardized cheap workers with barely any true compsci knowledge.

why do you think I come here all day long to pester you guys?

now, software research, that's certainly creative work. Unfortunately, just reserved for a few elite...

leebase · 02-22-2011, 02:42 PM

More "information is free" drivel. IF a person WANTS to put their hard work into the world for free, more power to them. There is certainly a place for that. As the choice of the PRODUCER (including the production chain the producer chooses to use: ie publishers).

Lee

Giggleton · 02-22-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farhad

So you are saying that all the users of Kindles, Nooks, and "support lending" devices are not *really* connected

Just kiddin

No, I was thinking about people who aren't connected to the energy/knowledge grid.

Art isn't useful??

Are you joking?

Imagination is the seed of all Knowledge.

Namekuseijin · 02-22-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Art isn't useful??

Are you joking?

Imagination is the seed of all Knowledge.

I agree with that.

Still, art has no immediate utility besides perhaps seeding genius minds.

murraypaul · 02-23-2011, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

Unfortunately, your daily IT job has no science nor glamour about it at all: it's just about mindlessly squashing bugs reported by users or building yet another form/report using lame commercial tools chosen on the basis of whose manager gets more buck for it. Menial creativeless work using standardized tools handled by standardized cheap workers with barely any true compsci knowledge.

Could say the same about authors churning out cookie cutter genre books, really?

rogue_librarian · 02-23-2011, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

More "information is free" drivel.

Well, the point they're making (artificially limiting ebooks to mimic physical books as closely as possible, the worst of both worlds, if you will) is a valid one, you may agree with it or not. Calling that "drivel" certainly shows more about what kind of spirit you are than you may realize.

murraypaul · 02-23-2011, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Well, the point they're making (artificially limiting ebooks to mimic physical books as closely as possible, the worst of both worlds, if you will) is a valid one, you may agree with it or not.

If that is what Amazon/B&N were doing with their lending programs, they would actually be useful. That way I could lend a book more than once, after the first person had returned it. That way I could give a book to someone else, they could then give it again, and so on. All of these things are possible with physical books, but not with the current lending programs, which are extremely limited.

tubemonkey · 02-23-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

All of these things are possible with physical books, but not with the current lending programs, which are extremely limited.

Actually, it is possible. Just loan your ereader out; same as a physical book.

rogue_librarian · 02-23-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murraypaul

If that is what Amazon/B&N were doing with their lending programs, they would actually be useful. That way I could lend a book more than once, after the first person had returned it.

Point taken, it's actually worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Actually, it is possible. Just loan your ereader out; same as a physical book.

Not the same at all. It's more like lending your entire library.

02-21-2011, 06:52 PM	#1
Farhad Zealot Posts: 139 Karma: 1248 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Florida Device: N800/Nokia 5230/PB IQ701/PB 360	Lending ebooks? A view from the FSF Hi, I have recently read the article Lending: A solved problem by John Sullivan, and I would like to share it with you and ask for your reaction. Personally, I wholeheartedly agree with Sullivan, but I would like hear the arguments of those who would disagree with him. Thanks a lot, Farhad

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02-21-2011, 07:59 PM	#2
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	What's to disagree with? We've solved the problem of transferring knowledge from one mind to another across the physical space, at least for those with access to the grid. Connecting those who aren't connected is the real problem.

02-21-2011, 08:49 PM	#4
Namekuseijin affordable chipmunk Posts: 1,290 Karma: 9863855 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brazil Device: Sony XPeria ZL, Kindle Paperwhite	Awesome read, all very good and fair points. The FSF are very persuasive folks and have done a wonderful job starting and promoting free software which eventually led to Gnu/Linux and Android by extension. Unfortunately, a book is not software, though both are written down in some language. Software is useful, art is not: software can help find a cure for cancer, a book will only imagine about a world without cancer. Software benefits from many contributors squashing bugs and polishing the interface, a book gets bogged down by too many conflicting views and styles leading to a confusing plot. Software is essentially a mechanical work, a book is a creative endeavour. Software is utilitarian, a book serves no purpose other than offering new points of view and experiences... Summing up, what may be good for software may not necessarily be good for books (art), namely that authors should work for free expecting others contributions to make its work better. That said, I'm totally pro the FSF view that lending as implemented in the nook and kindle are ridiculously cumbersome.

02-22-2011, 02:42 PM	#8
leebase Karma Kameleon Posts: 2,960 Karma: 26738313 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn	More "information is free" drivel. IF a person WANTS to put their hard work into the world for free, more power to them. There is certainly a place for that. As the choice of the PRODUCER (including the production chain the producer chooses to use: ie publishers). Lee