Copyright is Out of Sight - Page 12

spellbanisher · 02-21-2011, 05:13 PM

James_Wilde is off on his chronology, but his point is still essentially correct: for most of human history there were no commercial writers. I think the printing press was invented in the sixteenth century in Europe (the Chinese had a printing press much earlier) and there wasn't any real commercial market for books until the nineteenth-century. There were a few writers before the nineteenth century who made a living off their writing such as Aphra Behn, Ann Radcliffe, and Rousseau. Most other writers were rich, had patrons, or were part of some institution such as a university or the church. There were of course playwrights, but they made their money from the performances of their plays. It wasn't until the industrial revolution and the emergence of a literate and large middle class that writing became a viable full-time profession.

i think technology and the cost of books probably was another factor in the emergence of commercial writing. This is just speculation, but if publishers could use new technologies to mass produce books, they could sell the books for a price than is cheaper than the costs the pirates incur. I say this because in the eighteenth century piracy was rampant. Writers could only make money off the first printing of their works; after that, numerous pirated editions would appear. Writers such as Voltaire tried to combat piracy by releasing new editions of their works every couple of years. Voltaire released so many editions of his works that many readers swore that they would not buy any more of his books until after he was dead. My assumption is because there were so few people who could read before the nineteenth century, books were a scarce and highly valuable commodity for those who were literate. Compound this situation with the fact that most governments severely restricted what could and could not be published, and you had conditions that would have been propitious for pirates.

James_Wilde is also correct in noting that the twentieth century commercial writing market is unlike any previous time in history. Even in the ninteenth century books were popular only in a few urban hotspots. The book market exploded in the early twentieth century when the first generation of people who had access to public education became adults.

The pinnacle of the book market in terms of prestige and profitability was the 1920's. But people bought books in the 20's for reasons other than reading. Books gave rooms ambiance. Having Joyce on your shelf said you were a literary rebel. Twain indicated you were a cynic, the classics(meaning works from Ancient Rome and Greece) that you were old-fashioned and sophisticated. Books were chosen more for their covers and colors and binding and smell and connotations than they were for their content. in the 1930's movies would surpass books as the most popular cultural medium. Today the most popular cultural medium is internet porn.

Enkidu of Abydos · 02-21-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

that goes on to show how mature you are.

And this shows how mature you are :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

So, in the end it's all about this: a whinning comunist discourse mixed with no wage teen angst. Brilliant, dude....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

And if you think all men are equal and other comunist bs

Enough said.

Giggleton · 02-21-2011, 05:16 PM

No ONE has the answers for sustaining culture in a copyright free world.

Yes, we've all heard these arguments back and forth for what 40+ years now? Since the advent of the digital form?

Conclusions?

Work to create what you want to see.
With others as the case may be.
Copyright is very wrong,
Why has it existed so long?
It protects the creator, it protects the profits,
Protection is a crazy racket.
Protect yourself from those who deem
What you can see and read between,
The laws forged in the days of yore,
When knowledge was kept far from each door.
The public knows what is desired,
and it will soon be acquired.
No more keys, for useless locks
No more barriers to unblock

spellbanisher · 02-21-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

No ONE has the answers for sustaining culture in a copyright free world.

Yes, we've all heard these arguments back and forth for what 40+ years now? Since the advent of the digital form?

Conclusions?

Work to create what you want to see.
With others as the case may be.
Copyright is very wrong,
Why has it existed so long?
It protects the creator, it protects the profits,
Protection is a crazy racket.
Protect yourself from those who deem
What you can see and read between,
The laws forged in the days of yore,
When knowledge was kept far from each door.
The public knows what is desired,
and it will soon be acquired.
No more keys, for useless locks
No more barriers to unblock

Can't argue with a poem. The debate is over.

Enkidu of Abydos · 02-21-2011, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

Today the most popular cultural medium is internet porn.

This ALMOST made me pee in my pants.
It also reminded me of that "The Internet is for porn" WoW spoof video...

Enkidu of Abydos · 02-21-2011, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

No ONE has the answers for sustaining culture in a copyright free world.

Yes, we've all heard these arguments back and forth for what 40+ years now? Since the advent of the digital form?

Conclusions?

Work to create what you want to see.

With others as the case may be.

Copyright is very wrong,

Why has it existed so long?

It protects the creator, it protects the profits,

Protection is a crazy racket.

Protect yourself from those who deem

What you can see and read between,

The laws forged in the days of yore,

When knowledge was kept far from each door.

The public knows what is desired,

and it will soon be acquired.

No more keys, for useless locks

No more barriers to unblock

What's with the Indian chief ?

spellbanisher · 02-21-2011, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

What's with the Indian chief ?

He's clearly showing how violating the treaties and contracts made with Native Americans led to copyright. Duh

silasgreenback · 02-21-2011, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

What's with the Indian chief ?

Just having it as an option seems wrong.

Namekuseijin · 02-21-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

And this shows how mature you are :

Enough said.

nope, there's plenty to be said yet, but you preferred to hide away under past out-of-context arguments instead of rebating the latest thread of thought. That indeed is mature.

But then again, I would not expect much from someone who thinks he'll be in his 50's still thinking like a lame pirating teen...

Namekuseijin · 02-21-2011, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

He's clearly showing how violating the treaties and contracts made with Native Americans led to copyright. Duh

Oh the irony...

Enkidu of Abydos · 02-21-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

He's clearly showing how violating the treaties and contracts made with Native Americans led to copyright. Duh

Maybe he's saying they should have registered copyright on their lands and therefore prevented their lands being stolen (pirated

) and themselves being exterminated ?

spellbanisher · 02-21-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

Maybe he's saying they should have registered copyright on their lands and therefore prevented their lands being stolen (pirated

) and themselves being exterminated ?

Nah, those emoticons were posted by Giggleton, who argues that we need to abolish copyright for the good of humanity. If anything, he's saying that it was copyrights that killed the Native Americans. Of course the only way we can know for sure what Giggleton meant by those emoticons is by asking Namekuseijin, who seems to know the pirating teenage mind better than anyone.

kennyc · 02-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Wait? Who Pirated a Teenage Mind?

and why would they want to?

kennyc · 02-21-2011, 09:51 PM

I mean, what are minds but thoughts and they certainly are not property, I think the must be free and if they are free then we all have a right to take them. Come on what say you?

spellbanisher · 02-21-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

I mean, what are minds but thoughts and they certainly are not property, I think the must be free and if they are free then we all have a right to take them. Come on what say you?

I agree. We have a right to take thoughts, but no matter how many heads I cut open I never find any thoughts. I figure somebody else must have gotten to them first.

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02-21-2011, 05:13 PM	#166
spellbanisher Guru Posts: 826 Karma: 6566849 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bay Area Device: kindle keyboard, kindle fire hd, S4, Nook hd+	James_Wilde is off on his chronology, but his point is still essentially correct: for most of human history there were no commercial writers. I think the printing press was invented in the sixteenth century in Europe (the Chinese had a printing press much earlier) and there wasn't any real commercial market for books until the nineteenth-century. There were a few writers before the nineteenth century who made a living off their writing such as Aphra Behn, Ann Radcliffe, and Rousseau. Most other writers were rich, had patrons, or were part of some institution such as a university or the church. There were of course playwrights, but they made their money from the performances of their plays. It wasn't until the industrial revolution and the emergence of a literate and large middle class that writing became a viable full-time profession. i think technology and the cost of books probably was another factor in the emergence of commercial writing. This is just speculation, but if publishers could use new technologies to mass produce books, they could sell the books for a price than is cheaper than the costs the pirates incur. I say this because in the eighteenth century piracy was rampant. Writers could only make money off the first printing of their works; after that, numerous pirated editions would appear. Writers such as Voltaire tried to combat piracy by releasing new editions of their works every couple of years. Voltaire released so many editions of his works that many readers swore that they would not buy any more of his books until after he was dead. My assumption is because there were so few people who could read before the nineteenth century, books were a scarce and highly valuable commodity for those who were literate. Compound this situation with the fact that most governments severely restricted what could and could not be published, and you had conditions that would have been propitious for pirates. James_Wilde is also correct in noting that the twentieth century commercial writing market is unlike any previous time in history. Even in the ninteenth century books were popular only in a few urban hotspots. The book market exploded in the early twentieth century when the first generation of people who had access to public education became adults. The pinnacle of the book market in terms of prestige and profitability was the 1920's. But people bought books in the 20's for reasons other than reading. Books gave rooms ambiance. Having Joyce on your shelf said you were a literary rebel. Twain indicated you were a cynic, the classics(meaning works from Ancient Rome and Greece) that you were old-fashioned and sophisticated. Books were chosen more for their covers and colors and binding and smell and connotations than they were for their content. in the 1930's movies would surpass books as the most popular cultural medium. Today the most popular cultural medium is internet porn.

02-21-2011, 05:16 PM	#168
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	No ONE has the answers for sustaining culture in a copyright free world. Yes, we've all heard these arguments back and forth for what 40+ years now? Since the advent of the digital form? Conclusions? Work to create what you want to see. With others as the case may be. Copyright is very wrong, Why has it existed so long? It protects the creator, it protects the profits, Protection is a crazy racket. Protect yourself from those who deem What you can see and read between, The laws forged in the days of yore, When knowledge was kept far from each door. The public knows what is desired, and it will soon be acquired. No more keys, for useless locks No more barriers to unblock

02-21-2011, 09:49 PM	#178
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,922 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2 & PW, Onyx Boox Go6	Wait? Who Pirated a Teenage Mind? and why would they want to?

02-21-2011, 09:51 PM	#179
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,922 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2 & PW, Onyx Boox Go6	I mean, what are minds but thoughts and they certainly are not property, I think the must be free and if they are free then we all have a right to take them. Come on what say you?