Borders to have a fire sale - from CNNMoney

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

All sales were final and no exceptions. You couldn't even inspect the merchandise by opening the box.

That's why you open the box before you buy it. They don't have to know. When a company is trying to rip me off, I have no qualms about obtaining the information I need to defend myself.

I picked up a Wi-Fi finder for half price (about 30% less than at other stores), a pair of rechargeable Wii controller batteries (there were so many they got down to dirt cheap), some odds and ends of cables out of the store fixture box, and a couple of very nice 50 cent folding umbrellas, if you don't mind your umbrellas saying Circuit City on them. Great to throw in the back of the car for when you find yourself in an unexpected rainstorm and you're stuck parking somewhere out in the gods. But you really had to be careful, and you had to want things that they either had a massive pile of (probably brought in for the purpose) or nobody else wanted.

The Discovery Channel store closeout was where I really made bank; I got some Brother P-Touch label tapes incredibly cheap, about 80% off ... I'm still using those, and I will be for years. That's just for the tapes; the labelmaker and very nice case included with them were effectively free. And then there was the Pfalzgraff outlet store that closed ... half-price half-price dishes, so we filled in some gaps in our set that we've been accumulating from yard sales and eBay.

But you really have to know what you're buying. Too many people get "sale fever" and feel like they have to buy something, anything, just because it's there. Liquidation companies count on them.

[Grimm]

I got a $35.00 National Geographic Birds of the World book for $3.99 at my local Borders. It was a madhouse in there, they actually had some decent stuff at highly reduced prices.

[porkupan]

I am sure Slickdeal.net is on the case, and the news about store closings are all over the news media and bargain-hunting blogs, so all the people who normally never visit a bookstore will make a point of going to the local Borders to get some dirt cheap gifts for whatever obligatory gift-giving occasion happens to come next. When my local Borders was shutting down at Xmas time of last year, it was mobbed by bargain hunters you would normally see visiting Walmart, Target and garage sales. I wish they were there earlier, before the store had to close. Well, perhaps it wouldn't have mattered as the company is in such a hell of a mess...

Buying a booklight at 30% off would have been a smart move, but one could have it at 33% off pretty much any week in the last few years, and many of those weeks at 40% off. Borders has been incessantly emailing those weekly coupons to Rewards members, and continues doing it now. Since about 3 idiot-CEO's ago, there has never been a reason to pay full price for anything at Borders.

I am surprised, however, that so many people who visit this forum and seem to love to read are exhibiting such a nonchalant attitude towards possible liquidation of a major bookstore chain. Bookstores have been a major part of culture for so many years, centuries even, and in some ways they replaced libraries as places where knowledge could be obtained without necessarily paying for it. Personally, I am saddened by the fact that the majority of book lovers are resigned to get their books from a price cutting catalog, which is Amazon. I guess, price-shopping is "the American way", but I wish people cared more about the local economy and the local jobs. After all, many urban and suburban book lovers are not destitute, and could afford to spend a few extra bucks for the privilege to have a real bookstore in the neighborhood. I happen to believe that the bargain prices will only last as long as there is viable competition in the book selling business. Once the B&M stores cease to present any sort of a threat, the cheap prices at the online shark-super-store will give way to MSRP. The same goes for ebooks, by the way...

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by porkupan

After all, many urban and suburban book lovers are not destitute, and could afford to spend a few extra bucks for the privilege to have a real bookstore in the neighborhood.

If I decide it is necessary to personally dispense welfare, I will write the store a check.

I happen to believe that the bargain prices will only last as long as there is viable competition in the book selling business. Once the B&M stores cease to present any sort of a threat, the cheap prices at the online shark-super-store will give way to MSRP.

"...as long as there is viable competition..."

If Amazon were to raise prices to (or above) MSRP, then a competitor would arise from exactly the same place Amazon did (essentially, nowhere) and undercut them. That's the thing about online business: it doesn't matter how big your store is, or how fancy the facade, or how much foot traffic you get, or how far your customers have to drive to get there. Amazon is as close, or as far, as any other online bookstore. And if they don't give the customers what they want (good prices, fast delivery) then someone else will. And they'll get the business instead. It's not even like Border's putting up a store across the street from Barnes & Noble: every store on the Web is "across the street" from every other store.

At least, as long as they're not prohibited by law from doing so, as they are in some countries. And as they are with regard to Cabal-owned ebooks, which is another thread (or several) entirely.

[Connallmac]

Originally Posted by porkupan

I am surprised, however, that so many people who visit this forum and seem to love to read are exhibiting such a nonchalant attitude towards possible liquidation of a major bookstore chain. Bookstores have been a major part of culture for so many years, centuries even, and in some ways they replaced libraries as places where knowledge could be obtained without necessarily paying for it. Personally, I am saddened by the fact that the majority of book lovers are resigned to get their books from a price cutting catalog, which is Amazon. I guess, price-shopping is "the American way", but I wish people cared more about the local economy and the local jobs. After all, many urban and suburban book lovers are not destitute, and could afford to spend a few extra bucks for the privilege to have a real bookstore in the neighborhood. I happen to believe that the bargain prices will only last as long as there is viable competition in the book selling business. Once the B&M stores cease to present any sort of a threat, the cheap prices at the online shark-super-store will give way to MSRP. The same goes for ebooks, by the way...

I'd love to be able to give money to a small, local bookstore. But in this part of rural Indiana there aren't any. I go out of my way to shop locally, frequenting my town's IGA and Ace Hardware store, but as far as local retail goes those are my only choices. I continue to be a supporter of my local library, both through cash donations and purchasing books from their book sales.

[crich70]

There used to be a 'new' book bookstore here but it closed some yrs back. I got some good deals during their sale though. Books that were $19.99 were at least 50% off so I got some Star Trek related books at a very good deal. The only bookstore here now is one called "Fireside" that deals in 2nd hand books at a reasonable price. They're not a big chain store that's open every day of the week but they have a good selection of books.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by porkupan

I am surprised, however, that so many people who visit this forum and seem to love to read are exhibiting such a nonchalant attitude towards possible liquidation of a major bookstore chain.

Outside of people losing their jobs, I really don't care if any bookstore goes belly up. I don't shop in them and am quite content dealing with them online.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by porkupan

I am surprised, however, that so many people who visit this forum and seem to love to read are exhibiting such a nonchalant attitude towards possible liquidation of a major bookstore chain.

Borders was my last resort for anything. The ones near me are not nice and their selection is terrible. One time I went to the bother of having them order a book for me... it took 6 weeks to come in and I had to go pick it up. Or I can order from Amazon and have it in a couple days.

Originally Posted by porkupan

Bookstores have been a major part of culture for so many years, centuries even, and in some ways they replaced libraries as places where knowledge could be obtained without necessarily paying for it.

First, book stores in this sense haven't been around for "centuries". Why do you call it a place where knowledge can be obtained for free? If this is the way you feel, then YOU are a large reason why the stores are doing poorly. Many people I see in bookstores today don't buy anything, they just sit there and read the books for free while sipping their $5 coffee.

Originally Posted by porkupan

Personally, I am saddened by the fact that the majority of book lovers are resigned to get their books from a price cutting catalog, which is Amazon. I guess, price-shopping is "the American way", but I wish people cared more about the local economy and the local jobs. After all, many urban and suburban book lovers are not destitute, and could afford to spend a few extra bucks for the privilege to have a real bookstore in the neighborhood.

"Real" bookstore? Versus... what, a fake one? I do prefer Amazon, but only part of it is to do with price. I like the convenience, the quickness and their customer service. Borders can't match them on any of those points. I will not buy local just for the sake of protectionism. If a company wants my business they have to offer me something of value. And in today's world, that means being able to compete globally.

[Penforhire]

I went to my local Borders this weekend, which is closing, and got a book on Visual Basic programming for, oh, about $1 more than it would have cost me from Amazon (including shipping). So 20% off just brings some books in line with their on-line price. The place wasn't packed. I imagine because they had no advertising other than on their windows.

[Worldwalker]

Something the "buy local" protectionists are missing out on, badly:

Buying locally also means selling locally, naturally. If everybody bought locally, as the protectionists demand, then the markets for the producers would be devastated. Take, say, a Maine lobsterman. Instead of shipping his lobsters nationwide, even worldwide, he'd be limited to the customers who came to his lobster pound to pick one up. It's been done. There's a reason that the father and grandfather and great-grandfather of our hypothetical lobsterman were eager to embrace cold storage and long-distance shipping: they could sell more lobsters, and sell lobsters for more -- and hence make better lives for themselves and their families -- if they weren't limited to local sales.

Let's look at in terms of the bookstore: Aside from the rather strange concept that an international super-chain is "local", let's look at what it sells. Bookstores, naturally, sell books (no, despite porkupan's opinion, they really don't exist to let us use their merchandise for free). Those books come from all over. If we were going to "buy locally" we'd buy only books by local authors. Isn't a Stephen King book the same thing as a Maine lobster in that sense? They're both items provided by a person who lives in Maine and sold elsewhere. Why should a person living in California refuse to buy the lobster because it's not "local", but buy the book, even though Stephen King is no more local than the man who caught that lobster?

The idealized cozy bookstore where the owner knows all the customers by name is badly lacking in a number of areas that one tends to gloss over in that rosy memory. For example, there's the matter of selection. That store can't have a wide selection of books because there just isn't space to put them. The owner has to be very selective, which usually means focusing on their own interests. If your local bookstore specializes in mystery novels, for instance, and you need a book about woodworking, you have to wait for a special order to come in -- and pay not only full price but shipping, and possibly a special order fee as well -- and, of course, have to know that the book exists in the first place. You can't just browse through a shelf of books that meet your interest because there is no such shelf; if there was, not just for you but for all the other people who live in your town, the store would look like -- and require the space of -- a superstore. This kind of defeats the whole purpose. Also, for the owner to know most of the customers by name, the customer base has to be small. One person can't learn the names of tens of thousands of people, nor singlehandedly operate a superstore. Economies of scale are not your friend at that level.

And, of course, we're assuming a sweet, lovable bookstore owner here, and a customer as well. What if it's someone who doesn't like people like you? What if it's someone who doesn't like you -- your ex-girlfriend, maybe? What if you just don't make friends easily? Your ability to complete a commercial transaction shouldn't be dependent on the vendor's personal charm or your own, but that's how the "cozy neighborhood bookstore" scenario works out. You don't get along with the owner, so you don't want to go in their store ... tough luck, you don't get any books.

I still keep going back to the whole "local" thing. It's interesting how upset people get when a factory in their town closes ... losing jobs! ... yet that factory's customers are not local. That factory depends on shipping its products elsewhere. So does Amazon. Its jobs don't happen to be where I live, but the people who draw pay from Amazon can spend their money on things that are built where I live. It would be a dismal place if we could only buy locally ... I wouldn't even have this computer to type on, and of course I couldn't use MobileRead, since it's not local either. And my job -- website designer -- wouldn't even exist.

[Kali Yuga]

Yep, protectionism doesn't work.

I also find it amusing that people presume that small business owners are somehow paragons of virtue, but a sufficiently large organization (usually defined as "bigger than anyone else) is utterly devoid of ethics.

That said, I do think that some smaller stores have a positive role to play, especially those that specialize in a particular field or genre -- travel or mystery, for example. The operators are much more likely to have a beneficial depth of knowledge than a website. Unfortunately, you do need to have a community of a certain size in order to sustain a business along those lines.

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by porkupan

I am surprised, however, that so many people who visit this forum and seem to love to read are exhibiting such a nonchalant attitude towards possible liquidation of a major bookstore chain.

Local Borders is in a difficult to get to location with traffic; B&N is extremely easy to get to and less than a mile away from the Borders.

Local Borders is a medium sized store with about 1/3 of it dedicated to cd's (which I no longer buy) and DVD's/BluRay (which I no longer buy) and the book selection is only decent; local B&N is much bigger and dedicated to books with an excellent selection.

Local Borders loses on both of these counts. Sorry but I'm going to go for the store that is not only easier to get to but also has a better selection of books.

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

Yep, protectionism doesn't work.

I also find it amusing that people presume that small business owners are somehow paragons of virtue, but a sufficiently large organization (usually defined as "bigger than anyone else) is utterly devoid of ethics.

That said, I do think that some smaller stores have a positive role to play, especially those that specialize in a particular field or genre -- travel or mystery, for example. The operators are much more likely to have a beneficial depth of knowledge than a website. Unfortunately, you do need to have a community of a certain size in order to sustain a business along those lines.

You missed the memo that states all small businesses are pure as the driven snow and every large corporation is eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Grimm

You missed the memo that states all small businesses are pure as the driven snow and every large corporation is eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

I do have a very small but nice used book store that is semi-local for me. (It's local, but it's on the side of town I don't get to very frequently.) The second floor is nothing by SF/F (my favorite!) paperbacks, and 10 years ago I would have loved it. But, sadly, most SF/F paperbacks weren't printed on nice paper, and they haven't aged well. The feel and smell of the books is utterly repulsive, especially after reading ebooks almost exclusively for 2+ years.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Grimm

Local Borders is a medium sized store with about 1/3 of it dedicated to cd's (which I no longer buy) and DVD's/BluRay (which I no longer buy) and the book selection is only decent; local B&N is much bigger and dedicated to books with an excellent selection.

Oh, you've just reminded me... I hadn't been to Borders in ages and stopped by about a year ago because I was looking for somewhere to walk indoors and this Borders is in a small mall. I had to ask someone where the fiction books were located. I actually thought the store had ceased carrying fiction! They had changed the store all around and only the non-fiction books and knick-knacks were visible, then a huge section of dvds/cds. Turns out the books were past the dvd/cd section and in the far back corner of the store. The floor plan is such that you couldn't see the books until you walked through the dvd/cd section. (They've since moved things around, swapping the fiction section with the dvd/cd section.)

This thread just keeps reminding me why I dislike Borders so much.