Firmware Update Kindle adds Page Numbers (and more) - Page 13

Barty · 02-13-2011, 06:02 PM

I like the page numbers b/c there are fewer digits to remember. I don't need to go to the exact location; just the approximate area will do 98% of the time.

But I agree: having to press a key to look at the number means you will never remember to do it. By law, this means your kindle will freeze up or you will somehow lose your place right when you haven't looked in a while.

SeaBookGuy · 02-13-2011, 06:59 PM

Could you look up the location number for the end of the text portion of the book before you start reading, and keep it on an index card tucked into your case?

BobLenx · 02-13-2011, 07:13 PM

Be sure to let Amazon know your feelings about 3.1. If you want locations back at the bottom you have to let them know that, not just leave messages in forums tho their staff do read some of them. I have 3.1 and like the speedier page turns, and the new layout for newspapers and magazines. The rest of it doesn't interest me much.

I never have understood the mania for page numbers. I mean what maybe 8% of those of us reading on Kindles actually NEED page number for classes or for references in articles we write about books or for comparisons with other readers - in which case I think locations is the superior approach. And the page numbers are not going to be there for all the books we buy from Amazon and not for any of the freebies we get from other sources. I don't get it.

Everyone is expressing their opinion as to what they like best - page numbers, locations, percentage or the bottom progress bar. Of the ones available I only use the percentage. If Amazon wanted to make ME happy they would show SCREEN numbers - what screen I am on out of how many screens in the book based on the font options I am using. (I never change fonts on my Kindle.) And they would modify the settings screen to add a feature to let me select what scheme I wanted to appear at the bottom while reading a book.

tomsem · 02-13-2011, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy

Could you look up the location number for the end of the text portion of the book before you start reading, and keep it on an index card tucked into your case?

This almost works well (based on the observation that bookmarks show a little tick-mark in the progress bar):

1. Find the 'end of content' position
2. if the book has no chapter ticks in the progress bar, set a bookmark there (Alt+b).
3. otherwise you need to move forward or back a few pages until % bar is not exactly on top of the chapter 'tick', and set the bookmark there.
4. now return to the start of the book
5. in case (2.) the mark will show you the relative position of the end of reading. in case (3.) you'll see a 'fat' tick mark and will know that represents the approximate end of the book.

ApK · 02-16-2011, 10:45 AM

I'm just still not getting this.

If the Kindle crashes so often that you find not constantly memorizing a location number is a deal breaker, then get it serviced or replaced, cuz that's just insane and should not be happening.

If you just need the occasional sense of where you are in the book, then the always visible percentage number should fill that function just as well, and be easier to remember. Yes, if you use large fonts AND have a long book AND you are at the end of given percentage number, you may have to click forward several times to get back to the exact spot where you were, but is that really less convenient then constantly memorizing and typing a 4 digit location number?

And as for page numbers, I think people just need to let go of that nostalgia. Ebooks do not and should not have page numbers, and in the future, more and more books will be coming out in ebook-only form.

The academics should adopt a more precise way to cite, like a standardized location system, perhaps based on word count or percentages down to hundreths, and book clubbers...geesh, you STILL won't have the same page numbers if one person has a hard back from the library and another has a paperback from the book store, so just adapt for goodness sake!

As I said in another forum, it will not be too long before you'll hear stuff like "You cited a PAGE number? What were you thinking? Where am I going to dig up some archaic paper edition of this book?"

ApK

koland · 02-16-2011, 12:22 PM

If your Kindle is crashing often enough to notice, first upgrade to the latest firmware (the very earliest one had issues). If that doesn't work, take it out of that cover w/o a light. The hinge is shorting it out and causing the issue. Amazon will issue a refund, which you can use on a different cover.

WT Sharpe · 02-16-2011, 12:27 PM

I like how the page numbers and locations are displayed when the menu button is pressed. They're small, but very readable and unobtrusive. I just wish it wasn't necessary to press the menu button to see them, and I hope that in the next update, they'll be always visible, or at least offer the reader the option of making them so.

And personally, I don't feel that "Source: Twain, Mark; A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court; 67%" will ever be suitable as a citation in a professional paper. But I've been wrong before.

Snapply · 02-16-2011, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

I like how the page numbers and locations are displayed when the menu button is pressed. They're small, but very readable and unobtrusive. I just wish it wasn't necessary to press the menu button to see them, and I hope that in the next update, they'll be always visible, or at least offer the reader the option of making them so.

And personally, I don't feel that "Source: Twain, Mark; A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court; 67%" will ever be suitable as a citation in a professional paper. But I've been wrong before.

i lold

DMSmillie · 02-16-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

And personally, I don't feel that "Source: Twain, Mark; A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court; 67%" will ever be suitable as a citation in a professional paper.

Heh... I'd agree totally with that - the percentage is far too imprecise to use as a citation.

That's not the case with location numbers though - they identify exactly the point in the book that corresponds with the cited text. Yes, only if you look up the reference using a Kindle, but the same applies to a citation referring to a page number in the second paperback edition - one wouldn't expect that to be an exact match with the first edition, hard cover version.

WT Sharpe · 02-16-2011, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMSmillie

Heh... I'd agree totally with that - the percentage is far too imprecise to use as a citation.

That's not the case with location numbers though - they identify exactly the point in the book that corresponds with the cited text. Yes, only if you look up the reference using a Kindle, but the same applies to a citation referring to a page number in the second paperback edition - one wouldn't expect that to be an exact match with the first edition, hard cover version.

True, but to be effective as a citation tool they must first become standardized across platforms. I don't see that happening any time soon, if at all. If all the world read Kindles, that would work fine.

ApK · 02-16-2011, 12:54 PM

67.24% would be more accurate than pages for any volume with less than 10000 pages, but I think the way to go will be a standardized location size across ereaders, same as most of us would like a standardized ebook format across all reader. And I predict that if/when a standard location system is chosen, we will call it "page number" as the official standard name, and then everyone will be happy!

ApK

DMSmillie · 02-16-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

True, but to be effective as a citation tool they must first become standardized across platforms. I don't see that happening any time soon, if at all. If all the world read Kindles, that would work fine.

This is something I can't figure out - why is it OK to have citations that are specific to one particular print version, but not OK to have citations that are specific to one particular electronic version?

omk · 02-16-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orlok

I've noticed that the Go to... feature has been updated - it now has "page" and "end" added (don't *think* end was there before?).

Yep, as an interesting side-effect, it now takes only one 5-way click to highlight "Beginning" when you use GoTo in PDFs. I use the K3 for aviation charts where I very often jump to page one of a PDF to look up an index and then GoTo a specific page from there, so this is a welcome feature of 3.1 for me. Other than that, don't see any difference in pagination speed, though it is certainly not slower in any way.

carld · 02-16-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMSmillie

This is something I can't figure out - why is it OK to have citations that are specific to one particular print version, but not OK to have citations that are specific to one particular electronic version?

I've been reading the back and forth over page numbers and wondering the same thing.

tomsem · 02-16-2011, 02:11 PM

Citation in one web document to another is a simple matter of embedding a link. The problem is that links have a relatively short half life as compared to physical media (though physical media has its own issues in terms of availability).

But if all digital content (including fluctuating web pages) was archived permanently online (storage is cheap), then you could point all of your digital references there, they would last 'forever', and everybody would be free to dereference your references. If you wanted your intellectual product to be reference-able, you would make sure it got into that archive. Physical media could include references to digital media, and digital representations of physical media could be added to the archive along with their page numbers so that they can be referenced digitally. And generations of link-bots and librarians could add new links and have those links be archived.

Google's certainly taking a crack at doing this sort of thing. But it seems to me anything less than 'everything permanently accessible in the cloud' is a half-measure.

02-13-2011, 07:13 PM	#183
BobLenx Connoisseur Posts: 78 Karma: 308 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Sony505 K2 K3	Be sure to let Amazon know your feelings about 3.1. If you want locations back at the bottom you have to let them know that, not just leave messages in forums tho their staff do read some of them. I have 3.1 and like the speedier page turns, and the new layout for newspapers and magazines. The rest of it doesn't interest me much. I never have understood the mania for page numbers. I mean what maybe 8% of those of us reading on Kindles actually NEED page number for classes or for references in articles we write about books or for comparisons with other readers - in which case I think locations is the superior approach. And the page numbers are not going to be there for all the books we buy from Amazon and not for any of the freebies we get from other sources. I don't get it. Everyone is expressing their opinion as to what they like best - page numbers, locations, percentage or the bottom progress bar. Of the ones available I only use the percentage. If Amazon wanted to make ME happy they would show SCREEN numbers - what screen I am on out of how many screens in the book based on the font options I am using. (I never change fonts on my Kindle.) And they would modify the settings screen to add a feature to let me select what scheme I wanted to appear at the bottom while reading a book. Last edited by BobLenx; 02-13-2011 at 09:07 PM.

02-16-2011, 10:45 AM	#185
ApK Award-Winning Participant Posts: 7,389 Karma: 68329346 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ, USA Device: Kindle	I'm just still not getting this. If the Kindle crashes so often that you find not constantly memorizing a location number is a deal breaker, then get it serviced or replaced, cuz that's just insane and should not be happening. If you just need the occasional sense of where you are in the book, then the always visible percentage number should fill that function just as well, and be easier to remember. Yes, if you use large fonts AND have a long book AND you are at the end of given percentage number, you may have to click forward several times to get back to the exact spot where you were, but is that really less convenient then constantly memorizing and typing a 4 digit location number? And as for page numbers, I think people just need to let go of that nostalgia. Ebooks do not and should not have page numbers, and in the future, more and more books will be coming out in ebook-only form. The academics should adopt a more precise way to cite, like a standardized location system, perhaps based on word count or percentages down to hundreths, and book clubbers...geesh, you STILL won't have the same page numbers if one person has a hard back from the library and another has a paperback from the book store, so just adapt for goodness sake! As I said in another forum, it will not be too long before you'll hear stuff like "You cited a PAGE number? What were you thinking? Where am I going to dig up some archaic paper edition of this book?" ApK Last edited by ApK; 02-16-2011 at 10:49 AM.

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02-13-2011, 06:02 PM	#181
Barty doofus Posts: 2,551 Karma: 13089041 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kindle Voyage	I like the page numbers b/c there are fewer digits to remember. I don't need to go to the exact location; just the approximate area will do 98% of the time. But I agree: having to press a key to look at the number means you will never remember to do it. By law, this means your kindle will freeze up or you will somehow lose your place right when you haven't looked in a while.

02-13-2011, 06:59 PM	#182
SeaBookGuy Can one read too much? Posts: 2,029 Karma: 2487799 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Naples, FL Device: Kindle PW 3, Sony 350 and 650	Could you look up the location number for the end of the text portion of the book before you start reading, and keep it on an index card tucked into your case?

02-16-2011, 12:22 PM	#186
koland Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,560 Karma: 8033155 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: TN, USA Device: kindle(all), nook, nookcolor, Sony, Kobo, epic, iphone, iPad, pc	If your Kindle is crashing often enough to notice, first upgrade to the latest firmware (the very earliest one had issues). If that doesn't work, take it out of that cover w/o a light. The hinge is shorting it out and causing the issue. Amazon will issue a refund, which you can use on a different cover.

02-16-2011, 12:27 PM	#187
WT Sharpe Bah, humbug! Posts: 39,072 Karma: 157049943 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA Device: Kindle Oasis, iPad Pro, & a Samsung Galaxy S9.	I like how the page numbers and locations are displayed when the menu button is pressed. They're small, but very readable and unobtrusive. I just wish it wasn't necessary to press the menu button to see them, and I hope that in the next update, they'll be always visible, or at least offer the reader the option of making them so. And personally, I don't feel that "Source: Twain, Mark; A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court; 67%" will ever be suitable as a citation in a professional paper. But I've been wrong before.

02-16-2011, 12:54 PM	#191
ApK Award-Winning Participant Posts: 7,389 Karma: 68329346 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ, USA Device: Kindle	67.24% would be more accurate than pages for any volume with less than 10000 pages, but I think the way to go will be a standardized location size across ereaders, same as most of us would like a standardized ebook format across all reader. And I predict that if/when a standard location system is chosen, we will call it "page number" as the official standard name, and then everyone will be happy! ApK

02-16-2011, 02:11 PM	#195
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,953 Karma: 27060153 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Citation in one web document to another is a simple matter of embedding a link. The problem is that links have a relatively short half life as compared to physical media (though physical media has its own issues in terms of availability). But if all digital content (including fluctuating web pages) was archived permanently online (storage is cheap), then you could point all of your digital references there, they would last 'forever', and everybody would be free to dereference your references. If you wanted your intellectual product to be reference-able, you would make sure it got into that archive. Physical media could include references to digital media, and digital representations of physical media could be added to the archive along with their page numbers so that they can be referenced digitally. And generations of link-bots and librarians could add new links and have those links be archived. Google's certainly taking a crack at doing this sort of thing. But it seems to me anything less than 'everything permanently accessible in the cloud' is a half-measure.