Don't buy wireless e-readers

[Kevin2960]

Of course using eReaders is Dangerous .... If your crossing the ROAD or loading FUEL RODS in a nuclear power station at the time !

But we all knew that RIGHT ???

[jabook]

Caltsar,

not beeing speciallist, I agree with most of the things you wrote - the main point in question is (what we generally do not know) what is high / medium / low intensity of radiation. Obviously, having yourself inside of a microwave is too much, but for example talking mobile phones and rats

Originally Posted by Caltsar

Certainly when exposing lab rats to incredibly high fields this has an adverse effect, but this doesn't mean the effect is enough to cause us harm in our daily life due to fields given off by the wiring in our walls (which are absolutely TINY by the way).

one a doctoral student at a nearby univesity finished last year an life-long experiment with rats (meaning covering the whole life of the rats, not his own) with daily exposure corresponding to two-hours active mobile phone use. The effects were quite strong, but of course - as you write - rats are much smaller animals and our tolerance to this type of (microwave and other) radiation is quite certainly larger. Thus, we can get some upper bounds easily, but lower bounds (safety bounds) are difficult to come by. I am not overly sensitive about the issue (I stated before that i do not see any problem with using wireless ereaders and similar), but ...

... to give you a specific and personal example (not really a scientific evidence, but to explain concerns etc.) why there are in my opinion some valid concerns about wireless in general: a wlan hot spot was installed in my office approx. 1.5 or 2 meters from my working place some time ago (please note I did not know about its existence at that time). As you might guess because it is an example, there were likely some kind of health consequences: my tinitus was getting worse to the point that I repeatedly heard loud clacking sounds. After finding out about the wlan hotspot and knowing there were no other changes home or at work, I agreed with the employer just to move the hotspot further away so that the intensity decreases number of times (it was needed in that area) and the problem = loud sounds were gone (tinitus very naturally, but sadly not). I cannot of course claim 100% that hearing loud non-existing sounds was caused by the hotspot, but it appeared and disappeared with it and there were no other identifiable causes (which I tried to think hard about before bothering my employer with something so strange-sounding as the wlan-related health problems).

Now, it could very well be that - as you wrote - the effects of the EMF radiation were possibly only temporary (so they did not appear elsewhere than on my working place), but (i) how should one know and be certain about it and (ii) even these temporary effects were sufficiently troublesome.

Sorry for a long of topic comment, but I do not think there will be any valid concerns about wireless ereaders anyway.

Best,

Ja

[boxcorner]

Electromagnetic radiation and health

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Electromagnetic radiation and health

Could you translate the Federal Standard 1037C, the United States government findings? Maybe I'm tired, but I didn't see where they said how much exposure, was it 5 minutes at the level they didn't mention of 50 years at the same level, yes the one they didn't mention.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by Mortis

Could you translate the Federal Standard 1037C, the United States government findings? Maybe I'm tired, but I didn't see where they said how much exposure, was it 5 minutes at the level they didn't mention of 50 years at the same level, yes the one they didn't mention.

If what you are alluding to is the reliability of Wikipedia, then I concur. This type of open resource can contain vague, confusing, misleading, or incorrect information. At best, it's a useful guide that needs to be used in conjunction with other sources.

[Mortis]

I agree that Wikipedia is not the best source, in fact I wouldn't reference their material if I happened to be in university. I was actually eluding to the fact that I couldn't figure out how much was too much electromagnetic exposure.

I don't but the whole "You're going to die from every new technology that comes out".

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by Mortis

I agree that Wikipedia is not the best source, in fact I wouldn't reference their material if I happened to be in university. I was actually eluding to the fact that I couldn't figure out how much was too much electromagnetic exposure.

I don't but the whole "You're going to die from every new technology that comes out".

If you want to elude any hazards, place a pink crystal on the device.

[Caltsar]

Originally Posted by jabook

... to give you a specific and personal example (not really a scientific evidence, but to explain concerns etc.) why there are in my opinion some valid concerns about wireless in general: a wlan hot spot was installed in my office approx. 1.5 or 2 meters from my working place some time ago (please note I did not know about its existence at that time). As you might guess because it is an example, there were likely some kind of health consequences: my tinitus was getting worse to the point that I repeatedly heard loud clacking sounds. After finding out about the wlan hotspot and knowing there were no other changes home or at work, I agreed with the employer just to move the hotspot further away so that the intensity decreases number of times (it was needed in that area) and the problem = loud sounds were gone (tinitus very naturally, but sadly not). I cannot of course claim 100% that hearing loud non-existing sounds was caused by the hotspot, but it appeared and disappeared with it and there were no other identifiable causes (which I tried to think hard about before bothering my employer with something so strange-sounding as the wlan-related health problems).

Not to belittle any health issues you may have experienced, but I have a hard time believing that the wi-fi hotspot had anything to do with your problems. Wi-Fi runs at either 2.4GHz or 5GHz, both are bands open for pretty much any device to use as long as it passes FCC (or your local country's regulatory body) for use. Chances are, the Wi-Fi hotspot was running on the 2.4Ghz band as 5Ghz devices have only started gaining traction in the last few years. The following items also often use the same frequencies at the same power level or higher.

Cordless Phones, Baby Monitors, Bluetooth, Car Alarms, CCTV, Satellite TV, and Microwave Ovens. Many of these devices are made to emit a higher amount of radiation than any Wi-Fi hotspot or device and, in fact, your laptop or anything around you with a Wi-Fi card in it will be emitting the same amount of radiation closer to you.

Even your microwave oven emits massive amounts of 2.4Ghz radiation, and while it is shielded, you can often see the effects of the radiation being emitted by using a Wi-Fi signal monitor on a nearby computer. The effect is more pronounced on older or cheaper microwaves.

If you aren't seeing the same issues around the multitude of devices that also work on this band, chances are there are other causes. The mind is very powerful at finding causes for problems, often when there is no link at all, and it is also very powerful at curing problems with nothing more than a strong belief. The simple fact is that there is no peer-reviewed research that links the power levels in consumer devices (measured in milliwatts) to any sort of acute or long term issues.

[Mortis]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

If you want to elude any hazards, place a pink crystal on the device.

Yes, point taken.

That should have been allude.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by Caltsar

... The mind is very powerful at finding causes for problems, often when there is no link at all, and it is also very powerful at curing problems with nothing more than a strong belief ...

Humans have an innate quality that causes us to try to create order from chaos, for example seeing images in randomly scattered objects, constellations in the celestial sphere, optical illusions, etc. So, perhaps it is partly this quality that drives us to find causes for problems.

Originally Posted by Mortis

Yes, point taken.

That should have been allude.

Pink crystals prevent errors, too.

[Caltsar]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Pink crystals prevent errors, too.

I thought the purple crystals prevented errors. Pink crystals actually have the negative effect of inducing errors, and as such you need at least two purple crystals to balance out the negative effects of the pink crystal.

[jabook]

Originally Posted by Caltsar

Not to belittle any health issues you may have experienced, but I have a hard time believing that the wi-fi hotspot had anything to do with your problems. ... The following items also often use the same frequencies at the same power level or higher.

Cordless Phones, Baby Monitors, Bluetooth, Car Alarms, CCTV, Satellite TV, and Microwave Ovens.

A very good point - I did not want to make previous post too long, but (for other reasons than concerns about EMF) we actually do not have or use at home practically any of the mentioned things (microwave, baby monitor, wifi, satellite TV ... what for? [wifi does not work well in our house as it has to pass more conrete ceilings so we use other ways to network]). Regarding the cordless phone, we use one of few models that actually do not emit any signal as long as they are not in use and one or three minutes of calling once in two or four weeks is somehow not enough to cause any problems (I just hate phone calls, that is, why I actually do not use a mobile phone either). I am pretty sure there are no devices sending permanently microwaves in the 1-5 GHz spectrum in or around our home - I mean it was pretty akward to decide and start bothering my employer with the issue and was looking for other explanations all over first (that does not mean I have not overlooked something - and if I did I would still like to know). I have more evidence for thinking the hotspot was the reason for magnifying my hearing problems (e.g., similar problem occuring later on when being for a longer time at my brother's place and having to read/sit/sleep next to his wifi router), but this is completely OT.

I however have no reason to claim that the effects were or could have been permanent. They always disappeared when I left work etc. It is just that the things are never the same once you get such problems... and it is hard to trust anything on such an issue when formally there should not be any effect at all.

Best,

Ja

[jabook]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

If you want to elude any hazards, place a pink crystal on the device.

They do actually work - if the device is in a box covered, for example, by an alluminium foil, and the crystal is on the top of the box; but precisely in its center!!! :-)))

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by Caltsar

I thought the purple crystals prevented errors. Pink crystals actually have the negative effect of inducing errors, and as such you need at least two purple crystals to balance out the negative effects of the pink crystal.

Ah, but are they subject to the inverse square law?

Originally Posted by jabook

... I mean it was pretty akward to decide and start bothering my employer ...

Most people don't like the idea of being handicapped in a double-blind experiment.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by jabook

A very good point - I did not want to make previous post too long, but (for other reasons than concerns about EMF) we actually do not have or use at home practically any of the mentioned things (microwave, baby monitor, wifi, satellite TV ... what for? [wifi does not work well in our house as it has to pass more conrete ceilings so we use other ways to network]). Regarding the cordless phone, we use one of few models that actually do not emit any signal as long as they are not in use and one or three minutes of calling once in two or four weeks is somehow not enough to cause any problems (I just hate phone calls, that is, why I actually do not use a mobile phone either). I am pretty sure there are no devices sending permanently microwaves in the 1-5 GHz spectrum in or around our home - I mean it was pretty akward to decide and start bothering my employer with the issue and was looking for other explanations all over first (that does not mean I have not overlooked something - and if I did I would still like to know). I have more evidence for thinking the hotspot was the reason for magnifying my hearing problems (e.g., similar problem occuring later on when being for a longer time at my brother's place and having to read/sit/sleep next to his wifi router), but this is completely OT.

I however have no reason to claim that the effects were or could have been permanent. They always disappeared when I left work etc. It is just that the things are never the same once you get such problems... and it is hard to trust anything on such an issue when formally there should not be any effect at all.

Best,

Ja

fyi, some alarm systems (usually older systems so it might not be worth considering) emit a high frequency sound that can induce either a tinnitus-like ringing in the ears of some people or a sensation akin to diminished hearing.

Not everyone can hear or sense these systems but a surprising number of people can. I can and do. Years ago I could not enter any of the old Thrifty Drug stores w/o hearing the ringing and the decreased hearing. That is how I know about the effects. It was and is soooo weird.