Digital Vs. Physical Goods

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by Piper_

Putting ads in books is a distinct possibility, I think. The idea has been bandied about, and a few months ago, there was even a report about Amazon sketching out a way to implement them.

Not gonna happen. At least, not at any level that pays for or even substantially reduces the price of books.

Advertisers will pay ridiculous amounts for TV time, because they're counting on hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of viewers, per ad they buy. They'll pay for ads on radio because they can count on thousands of listeners, all of whom live in a known area, hearing the ads. They'll pay for ads in magazines because each zine is flipped through at the store by a handful of people, and read by the buyer, probably buyer's family, possibly whoever the buyer hands it off to when they're done. If it's remotely medical, it might wind up in a doctor's office, seen by dozens or hundreds of patients. If it's pop media, it might be handed around a dorm or an office.

A Kindle book is read by... legitimately... up to 6 people, all of whom share a credit account (at least for the purpose of kindlebooks).

How many sales is that book ad likely to generate? If the ebook sells 10,000 copies, how many of those readers will buy the whatever-it-is? How much should the advertiser pay to reach them--and how can they make the ad both persuasive and non-invasive, so the reader doesn't just skip all future ad-supported ebooks? ("Skip" could include "buy, strip the DRM, delete the ad, then read.")

It's not that they can't put ads in ebooks, but they can't make them cost-effective for advertisers. They can't make an ad that averages $1 profit per ebook sold, and nothing else is going to reduce the price of the ebook.

[Penforhire]

You say that as if Google's fortune wasn't founded by ads I NEVER click. I don't recall ever hitting a click-though advertising link on a web search page or someone's blog. Back in the day, would you ever have imagined free (ad supported) office software that could compete with MS Office, which sold/sells for hundreds of dollars, considerably more than a few books? Or free e-mail? Or free video hosting?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Electronic advertising is one of them to me, lol.

[Piper_]

I have no clue, personally. I was just going by Amazon's apparent interest in it. They're usually pretty savvy about these things. Who knows.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

You say that as if Google's fortune wasn't founded by ads I NEVER click. I don't recall ever hitting a click-though advertising link on a web search page or someone's blog. Back in the day, would you ever have imagined free (ad supported) office software that could compete with MS Office, which sold/sells for hundreds of dollars, considerably more than a few books? Or free e-mail? Or free video hosting?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Electronic advertising is one of them to me, lol.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

You say that as if Google's fortune wasn't founded by ads I NEVER click. I don't recall ever hitting a click-though advertising link on a web search page or someone's blog. Back in the day, would you ever have imagined free (ad supported) office software that could compete with MS Office, which sold/sells for hundreds of dollars, considerably more than a few books? Or free e-mail? Or free video hosting?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Electronic advertising is one of them to me, lol.

Back in the day we had free email....

[Giggleton]

About a decade ago I read some article about how perhaps the libraries of the future will be storehouses of blueprints for the production of physical goods produced by the 3D printers.

At the time I thought, why should these blueprints be restricted to the library? The actual printers might need to be housed at the library though. You will still need a truck or a wheelbarrow to deliver your newly printed couch to your house of course. I wonder if you could print out a truck? I would take the wheelbarrow since it's less noisy.

The digital becomes the physical and vice versa if you so desire.

[Penforhire]

As this is a reading site, your post reminds me of Stephen Stephenson's "The Diamond Age." I recall he had point-of-use matter printers (or some similar name) in homes.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

As this is a reading site, your post reminds me of Neal Stephenson's "The Diamond Age." I recall he had point-of-use matter printers (or some similar name) in homes.

Yes, he did make use of the star trek style replicator in that story. colloquially, the cornucopia machine.

Since the title of this thread is digital vs. physical goods, I feel that since we have crossed the line between the two, we should begin to discuss what that means for the future of the distribution of physical goods.

Soon enough digital books containing designs for the printing of physical goods will be made available. It might be awhile before the public is able to print out their homes and all structures needed for furnishing their home, but it is certainly possible to do today if you have access to the right hardware.

What will be the effects of DRM on a blueprint for a stove? Do you not think that everyone should have the right to obtain a blueprint for a stove, take the blueprint to their local library and print themselves out a stove?

[Ken Maltby]

http://www.builditsolar.com/

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/otherdiy.htm

A number of people seem to like this site:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...ger-aka-Might/

Of course there is wiki:
http://www.diyinfo.org/wiki/Free_DIY_Plans

In some circles the concept has been around for awhile now, like since the 1890's for
the rural comunity. The internet does really make for a big improvement though.

Luck;
Ken

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

http://www.builditsolar.com/

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/otherdiy.htm

A number of people seem to like this site:

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...ger-aka-Might/

Of course there is wiki:
http://www.diyinfo.org/wiki/Free_DIY_Plans

In some circles the concept has been around for awhile now, like since the 1890's for
the rural comunity. The internet does really make for a big improvement though.

Luck;
Ken

Are you suggesting that in the future the plans for printable furnishings will be restricted to the non-rural community? I sometimes wonder if low-tech is the way to go, printing out a stove is definitely high-tech...

I guess we will just make do with what we have when the time comes.

[Ken Maltby]

I wonder if you truly understand the term "printable". Are you trying for a real discussion
or did you forget to take your meds? You can "printout" diagrams, material lists and the
instructions needed to make many things, including a "stove", high tech or low tech:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects.../JarCooker.htm

Such material instructions have been available to all, using the contemporary media.
The rural community has always been more inclined to making use of such information,
than their urban counterparts. Still, many a crystal radio got built from instructions
printed on the cardboard that separated shredded wheat biscuits, in the city as well as
on the farm. Making anything in a city apartment can be a challenge, so some projects
are easier to accomplish, as a DIY effort, outside a urban environment. If that is what
you mean.

Luck;
Ken

[Giggleton]

I was thinking about this type of thing,

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/te...y/14print.html

But a few years down the line, with the ability to print electronics in the home, or in the library as the case may be.

A designer might be able to sell these designs on a marketplace such as Amazon.com. It might also be the case that a community of designers will post designs for goods for free on the net, but what if there are differences between the finished product of the two designs?

The Amazon purchased stove design is more energy efficient then the stove design available for free through the public domain.

Would it be right for someone to download the Amazon design and then repost it on the net for everyone to use freely, since it is the most energy efficient design available?

[Ken Maltby]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I was thinking about this type of thing,

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/te...y/14print.html

But a few years down the line, with the ability to print electronics in the home, or in the library as the case may be.

A designer might be able to sell these designs on a marketplace such as Amazon.com. It might also be the case that a community of designers will post designs for goods for free on the net, but what if there are differences between the finished product of the two designs?

The Amazon purchased stove design is more energy efficient then the stove design available for free through the public domain.

Would it be right for someone to download the Amazon design and then repost it on the net for everyone to use freely, since it is the most energy efficient design available?

Ok, now that you have provided a reference to what you mean by "3d printer"
I have a better understanding of where you are coming from. There are very
strict limitations as to what each of specially built "3D Printers" can build and
they can only produce a single source material part. They are somewhat more sophisticated than a Play-Doh Machine, though. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...3P-_PEZp8bDfaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhaunGYwd08



But you know while we are at it you might consider digital Gene splicing data
for your home DNA Sequencer. It might make for some really long download
sessions though.

Luck;
Ken

[elcreative]

Nicely put...

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

Ok, now that you have provided a reference to what you mean by "3d printer"
I have a better understanding of where you are coming from. There are very
strict limitations as to what each of specially built "3D Printers" can build and
they can only produce a single source material part. They are somewhat more sophisticated than a Play-Doh Machine, though. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...3P-_PEZp8bDfaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhaunGYwd08



But you know while we are at it you might consider digital Gene splicing data
for your home DNA Sequencer. It might make for some really long download
sessions though.

Luck;
Ken

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

But you know while we are at it you might consider digital Gene splicing data
for your home DNA Sequencer. It might make for some really long download
sessions though.

I have considered that.

I take it you don't care so much about copyright? Or do you think that as a society we will not allow goods to be copyrighted that would serve humanity better if they were in the public domain?