Piracy Experiment

[Penforhire]

wv, my dad was a member of a Silicon Valley 'pirate group' back when 1.44 MB 3.5" floppies were the preferred storage medium. They'd get together to dupe and swap monthly. Seemed like most of them just did it to fulfill a hoarding addiction. Just imagine a floor-to-ceiling bookcase, four feet wide, stuffed to the gills with those 3.5" floppies. That was the extent of my dad's collection. I think he paid as much for those floppies as he would have for any legit software he actually used himself!

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Is it a problem if I share one ebook with one friend? No.
Is it a problem if I share every ebook I buy with 100,000 friends? Yes.

There isn't a number x where:

share 1 ebook with x friends is OK
but share 1 with x+1 friends with y is not OK.

Nor is there a number y where:

share y ebooks with 1 friend is OK
but share y+1 ebooks with 1 friend is not OK

That's rather what a grey area means. And that's why laws include words like "significant".

But the gray area is exactly the problem. I have no trouble with the concept that a wrong action that is done once should be punished less severely than a wrong action that is done more than once. But I do have trouble understanding in my own head why an act is moral if done once or twice, but immoral if done "many" times, however "many" is defined.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by wvcherrybomb

I'm sure this is correct.

The file collectors are a curiousity to me. What's in it for them? Are they just trying to make a name for themselves? Maybe just a hobby?

Why do people collect anything? I suppose bragging rights among other collectors would come into it, and maybe a degree of "fame" if you were the person people went to for some obscure book they wanted. Most people also like to be thanked or otherwise acknowledged for their actions (like the Karma thing here).

The man that Harlan Ellison took to court years back said he did it to make friends online.

[wvcherrybomb]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

wv, my dad was a member of a Silicon Valley 'pirate group' back when 1.44 MB 3.5" floppies were the preferred storage medium. They'd get together to dupe and swap monthly. Seemed like most of them just did it to fulfill a hoarding addiction. Just imagine a floor-to-ceiling bookcase, four feet wide, stuffed to the gills with those 3.5" floppies. That was the extent of my dad's collection. I think he paid as much for those floppies as he would have for any legit software he actually used himself!

I remember when those 3.5's were revolutionary. My first software was on cassettes (I barely missed the stacks of paper cards). Then the 5" floppies were standard on PCs.

So I guess it's mostly just a hobby thing. I can understand collecting, and even sharing within a defined group. It just seems like putting themselves out there as distributors would be risky. But then again, some people thrive on risk.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by Catlady

But the gray area is exactly the problem. I have no trouble with the concept that a wrong action that is done once should be punished less severely than a wrong action that is done more than once. But I do have trouble understanding in my own head why an act is moral if done once or twice, but immoral if done "many" times, however "many" is defined.

Maybe the problem is your characterization of the action as "wrong." Is it wrong to share an ebook with a friend, if what you're doing is trying to turn your friend on to a new book, or a new writer? "Hey, try this guy, I think you'll like his stuff." As a writer myself (and I'm trying to maximize my income from writing), I don't think so. I'd be grateful if you tried to interest someone else in my work.

I'd be less grateful if you tried to interest your 100,000 closest friends by giving them all copies of my book (unless it was one I'd decided myself to offer for free). I'd also prefer that you not give your friend copies of my entire backlist.

I don't think I've ever had a friend give me an ebook, but plenty of times people have given me copies of music. I've learned of a lot of new artists that way. And I've noticed that even when I was getting DRM'd music from itunes, or wherever, the terms generally allowed for a significant number of copies burned to CD. What's that for, if not to share with a friend?

[Xanthe]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

It has been asked and answered before.

Downloading a pirate copy is different to borrowing a pbook from a friend because
(i) The friend still retains the ebook version even if you never 'return' the ebook.
(ii) Many more than one friend can have the book at any one time.

Downloading a pirate copy is different to buying a pbook from a secondhand store because
(i) The person who originally bought the pbook no longer has it
(ii) There can only be one secondhand pbook per original sale.

Clear now?

Of course, there are grey areas. Giving a copy of an ebook you've bought to an actual friend because you think they'll like the author is technically copyright infringement, but is fine IMO if only done occasionally.

That is, of course, only if you see the original purchaser retaining a copy of a data file as somehow "wrong".

[Xanthe]

Originally Posted by kacir

(iii) plus, if you buy secondhand book you are creating a market, so people are not afraid to buy expensive hardbacks, knowing they can sell it later at secondhand.

Out of curiosity, is there a large group of people who buy expensive hardcovers only to resell them? Most of the used hardcovers I've purchased over the years have been either book club versions, remainder books or ex-library copies. Just speaking for myself, if I shell out money for a hardcover, it's staying in my possession until the estate sale.

[shorttimer1]

Originally Posted by wvcherrybomb

I remember when those 3.5's were revolutionary. My first software was on cassettes (I barely missed the stacks of paper cards). Then the 5" floppies were standard on PCs.

So I guess it's mostly just a hobby thing. I can understand collecting, and even sharing within a defined group. It just seems like putting themselves out there as distributors would be risky. But then again, some people thrive on risk.

SS Grandma,

I remember when the 8" floppy, which was before the 5-1/4" floppy was the hot ticket. Also remember designing a disk controller for a 29MB (yes MB) disk that was the size of a wash machine. Those were the days - early 70s.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

A commercial ebook will normally have a copyright message from the publisher saying that it is an ebook.

But sometimes that say it's not legal if it doesn't have a cover and most of those that have that message do not acually have a proper cover. So are they illegal eBooks?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by starrigger

Can't argue with that! (Though sometimes reading the oldies can be a surprisingly painful experience. )

I recently read Rendezvous with Rama and it was a painful experience.

[RolandD]

Originally Posted by wvcherrybomb

I'm sure this is correct.

The file collectors are a curiousity to me. What's in it for them? Are they just trying to make a name for themselves? Maybe just a hobby?

Originally Posted by Penforhire

wv, my dad was a member of a Silicon Valley 'pirate group' back when 1.44 MB 3.5" floppies were the preferred storage medium. They'd get together to dupe and swap monthly. Seemed like most of them just did it to fulfill a hoarding addiction. Just imagine a floor-to-ceiling bookcase, four feet wide, stuffed to the gills with those 3.5" floppies. That was the extent of my dad's collection. I think he paid as much for those floppies as he would have for any legit software he actually used himself!

Yes, it's a way to satisfy the hoarding urge, when you don't have the physical room for stuff.

[starrigger]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I recently read Rendezvous with Rama and it was a painful experience.

Ooh, sorry to hear that. My most painful Golden Age reread was Asimov's "Nightfall." I didn't do much better with Foundation, which I loved as a kid. On the other hand, I can with pleasure reread the old Tom Corbett Space Cadet books, and a few of my favorite old Winston SF juveniles. I'm not sure what the difference is, since the writing is pretty clunky in all of them.

[silasgreenback]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I recently read Rendezvous with Rama and it was a painful experience.

I returned the same book to the library 1/2 finished about two months ago.

Up the stairs, down the stairs, blah, blah, blah.

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by Xanthe

Most of the used hardcovers I've purchased over the years have been either book club versions, remainder books or ex-library copies. Just speaking for myself, if I shell out money for a hardcover, it's staying in my possession until the estate sale.

Really??? We have a store called Half Price Books where the hardcovers are $7.99, they are NOT book club, and they are most definitely NOT library, they do not accept library.

90% of those Hard Covers are in Good to Like New Condition, they even sell publisher Overstock, so you get new HC's for $8 as well.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Xanthe

Out of curiosity, is there a large group of people who buy expensive hardcovers only to resell them?

There are people that just HAVE to read the newest book by certain author as soon as it comes out. So they buy hardcover, because that is the only option. Then they try to sell it.
At one moment, the secondhand market was saturated by The Lost Symbol. ;-)