NYT: Apple Moves to Tighten Control of App Store

[astrodad]

Originally Posted by carld

He made a factually correct statement only to have it distorted by America's right-wing friendly press.

ROTFL...I'm not disputing that it was taken out of context, but seriously, America's press is largely unfriendly to the "right-wing".

Anyway, back to the actual topic here...

I love my iPad and my iPhone but if this leads to the removal of the Kindle app on my iDevice, I will be selling them both on ebay.

[BearMountainBooks]

From a completely different perspective, what worries me is that as vendors demand larger and larger cuts of the pie...it's going to come from the author's cut. Amazon isn't going to pay 70 percent if they have to give 30 percent to Apple (I think someone brought this up earlier.) And that means it gives the big publishers an excuse to keep the ebook royalty to the author lower or tiered.

Sigh. Wherever there is money, a feeding frenzy begins. I so hope that the "golden age" of ebooks lasts longer for the authors. Yes, I have selfish reasons for that, but the authors have been pushed down to 5 and 7 percent royalties for so long. It's been an amazing time and an amazing thing to have a market that offered even 35 percent...

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

From a completely different perspective, what worries me is that as vendors demand larger and larger cuts of the pie...it's going to come from the author's cut. Amazon isn't going to pay 70 percent if they have to give 30 percent to Apple (I think someone brought this up earlier.) And that means it gives the big publishers an excuse to keep the ebook royalty to the author lower or tiered.

Sigh. Wherever there is money, a feeding frenzy begins. I so hope that the "golden age" of ebooks lasts longer for the authors. Yes, I have selfish reasons for that, but the authors have been pushed down to 5 and 7 percent royalties for so long. It's been an amazing time and an amazing thing to have a market that offered even 35 percent...

Yes, I see this as a ripple effect of Apple's course.

In the five years since I started buying iDevices, I've spent only about $25 total on content and apps through Apple. I buy my books and music from elsewhere, and most of my 100+ apps were free. I'll keep using my iPad as long as I can continue to buy content outside Apple. I don't want Apple's cut to eat into already thin margins in book sales.

[snipenekkid]

To the whole group claiming people are over reacting. No people are specifically NOT over reacting. Many are in fact doing the smart thing and examining the POTENTIAL harm this can do to their not insignificant investment both financially and in terms of trust as well as how they use these devices to get things they expect to be able to use them for done.

It has been noted over and over that nothing is done yet. And also this refers to an already existing policy. However that policy has been, at best, loosely enforced as well as, it would seem, in a arbitrary fashion. And the way Apple has decided to go after things now will affect not the individual apps and the companies these were written specifically for but it will directly affect the consumer. It will devalue the investment and the devices.

I think the biggest concern among people is where will it end and exactly how Draconian will Apple become over the next couple years? Apple is and has always been a very abusive company in terms of their treatment of consumers. But people know this when they buy into Apple as a platform. I hate the use of echo-system though it might be the best analogy though I do not feel the need to introduce these buzzwords. We have enough of that crap already.

Apple has long been and still remains one of the biggest impediments to true inter-operable computing platforms. This decision is far worse than their with the $20 fee to upgrade the OS on the first generation of Touches. Only this time they used another set of companies to build their user base and now seem on the verge of yanking that rug out from under those companies AND the users who trusted they were actually buying stability by spending their very hard earned dollars on Apple products.

People assumed they were buying a stable product. This means an OS that is not a constantly moving target as well as not having the very app(s) which induced them to spend the premium on the name, disappear overnight. Leaving the user with the potentiality that features used to get their cash today are far from a given tomorrow. And even if Apple eventually changes how this is managed, it has confirmed to those who never owned an Apple product because of the very closed nature of their systems yet loved the idea of what the iPad/Touch and even the iPhone offered them in terms of stability and consistency, but it confirms or at minimum increases the doubt if Apple is worth the investment of cash and trust.

I feel Apple needs to assure users that access to apps which were ALREADY APPROVED and the data those apps are used to access will not disappear from the device now or in the future. And this is the real issue at hand. I don't care if people are misinterpreting things, as if this is the case Apple created the entire issue using a very poorly worded press release/announcement. It is incumbent on Apple to assure the users not for the users to just sit back and say "...just don't stick it in too far". Many of the most wary users are NOT owners of any Apple products in the past and are used to a case of if we buy it then we can use it however the crap we want.

I see this as pushing a LOT of people into jailbreaking their devices leaving Apple behind period. And those who don't will likely jump back to platforms they know and trust to not remove functionality just because they said they could but had chosen not to enforce their own rules from the beginning.

Anyway, that is how I view the issue. Apple needs to step up and fix this. I know for now any interest I had in iOS devices after really liking the Touch 4th gen device I had for a couple weeks is now completely, well not completely, but to the point where Apple must earn my business over the coming months. I do not feel unique in this regard.

[RockdaMan]

There has been a lot of hue and cry over app store policies in the past. They have not yet stunted the popularity or the growth of the platform.

I suspect that the users are content and quiet, and the critics are a vocal non-using minority.

[snipenekkid]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

There has been a lot of hue and cry over app store policies in the past. They have not yet stunted the popularity or the growth of the platform.

I suspect that the users are content and quiet, and the critics are a vocal non-using minority.

ahhh, the specious argument that it is always the minority who are complaining. Nope with this issue Apple used these apps to convince people who never had purchased an Apple device to buy one now. I know many people here weighed the decision between a Kindle DX and iPad for months and when the Kindle for iOS was released that sealed the deal.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

There has been a lot of hue and cry over app store policies in the past. They have not yet stunted the popularity or the growth of the platform.

I suspect that the users are content and quiet, and the critics are a vocal non-using minority.

I've bought a good number of iDevices for myself and others, but I doubt Apple will crumble without my money in the future, lol. I don't care whether Apple or other companies thrive or crumble. As a consumer, I'm interested in buying only what works well for me.

[WillysJeepMan]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

ahhh, the specious argument that it is always the minority who are complaining. Nope with this issue Apple used these apps to convince people who never had purchased an Apple device to buy one now. I know many people here weighed the decision between a Kindle DX and iPad for months and when the Kindle for iOS was released that sealed the deal.

All that is speculation on what Apple might do. It the history of iOS devices has there ever been such a "bait-n-switch"? No. Has there been apps that were yanked from the App Store only to reappear again? Yes, plenty of times.

If Apple is being as evil and manipulative as you are portraying them to be, then their decision will backfire on them. The history has shown us that most consumers who boycott companies and products are driven by emotion... and emotions change based on the season of the year, or what they ate for dinner last night.

Every major company is viewed as being evil at one time or another. Sony, MS, McDonalds, Walmart, and now Apple.

...and of course you and others give Amazon a pass on being evil with regard to ebooks... charging the same or MORE as the paper version in spite of the fact that ebooks are more restrictive with regard to giving away/selling. I don't see those harrumphing about Apple's evil-ness holding the same line against Amazon.

Bottom line, this is simply a convenient reason to express anti-Apple sentiment....that's ok, but let's call it what it is.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

All that is speculation on what Apple might do. It the history of iOS devices has there ever been such a "bait-n-switch"? No. Has there been apps that were yanked from the App Store only to reappear again? Yes, plenty of times.

Of course it's speculation. It's not as if Apple's spelling out its strategy for you or me. Shrug. Apple's free to run its business as it sees fit, to keep mum. If it threatens features I value, and I can get those features in other devices, no need for me keep buying iDevices.

You can spend your money your way, react to Apple's moves as you see fit. We all can.

[Graham]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

There has been a lot of hue and cry over app store policies in the past. They have not yet stunted the popularity or the growth of the platform.

I suspect that the users are content and quiet, and the critics are a vocal non-using minority.

This thread's been unusual in that a lot of the criticism (if not most) has been coming from iDevice users.

You're right that the average user just gets on with it, and doesn't follow this closely, but the action taken against Sony and the subsequent comments by Apple spokesperson Trudy Miller do reinforce that Apple are insisting that if an app offers outside of app purchases of books, it must also offer in-app purchases through Apple.

Those same average users are clearly more likely to opt for the convenience of in-App purchases unless the in-App price is raised with a clear note that if they buy outside the app it will be cheaper. Assuming that Amazon, Kobo, Sony, B&N and the like don't opt for that route, then it does look as though they will lose what margins they have.

Therefore there is a real possibility that some or all will remove their apps, and choice for the average iDevice user will be reduced. It's a gradual whittling away, but yes, that will, over time, and if extended to other types of media as well *, hit the popularity of the Apple devices.

Graham

* and they are saying it's an existing policy for apps, not specifically eBook store apps, so logically it should be extended to music, movies, TV, news, etc.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

ahhh, the specious argument that it is always the minority who are complaining.

When the majority complains you end up like Blockbuster, Borders, Bennigans, etc...

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by WillysJeepMan

...and of course you and others give Amazon a pass on being evil with regard to ebooks... charging the same or MORE as the paper version in spite of the fact that ebooks are more restrictive with regard to giving away/selling.

Not to beat a dead horse -- or even to defend Amazon, for that matter -- but the price of most bestselling ebooks just aren't up to Amazon anymore. They're being forced to make a larger profit on ebooks by the Agency Pricing Model.

I agree with many here, that regardless of how this plays out... the author will be the one who pays. Customers, publishers and ebook retailers will keep chugging along relatively unaffected.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

There has been a lot of hue and cry over app store policies in the past. They have not yet stunted the popularity or the growth of the platform.

I suspect that the users are content and quiet, and the critics are a vocal non-using minority.

Well, if you go to a place like macrumors, you will see that many users are actually quite concerned. *I'm* a user and I'm concerned. I think the only users who aren't concerned are users who don't read on their iPad, who only read iBooks on their iPad, or who aren't paying attention.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by Graham

Assuming that Amazon, Kobo, Sony, B&N and the like don't opt for that route, then it does look as though they will lose what margins they have.

Big assumption.

The App Store value proposition is simple: 30% of transactions done via an app go to Apple and in-app purchases is the method. That figure may change one day — lowered for certain media or split for app and in-app purchases at different rates — but not until there’s a better and more lucrative online store elsewhere. That day isn’t now. Obviously, if companies like Sony or Time Warner could build their own profitable media stores (not that they don’t try repeatedly) they wouldn’t even need the App Store to begin with. So who has the upper hand here?

And before you ask...HTML5. No need to do it in a native app that Apple has to approve.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Well, if you go to a place like macrumors, you will see that many users are actually quite concerned. *I'm* a user and I'm concerned. I think the only users who aren't concerned are users who don't read on their iPad, who only read iBooks on their iPad, or who aren't paying attention.

I can't say it better than this:

Just as I can’t see how Apple could have become a $300+ billion company by making iTunes an “open for all” playground of its competitors’ commercial interests — given Google, Microsoft, Adobe, RIM, Samsung, Nokia, TimeWarner, NBC, Universal, Amazon and a host of other competitors suing or attacking Apple on a daily basis — I can’t see a way for the App Store to prosper by turning itself into a “neutral zone” app and media hosting platform.