Piracy Experiment

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

As far as the law is concerned, that is theft.
______
Dennis

Which law?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Why is it legally and morally acceptable for me to copy my own paper book to a digital file--just as I can rip mp3s from my own CDs--but not legally and morally acceptable for me to obtain a digital file of that same book from someone else?

In the UK, neither of these actions is legal. Whether one considers them to be morally acceptable is down to the individual.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Whether it is okay or not is irrelevant, it is just a fact of life. What you call piracy has existed for hundreds of years, and despite the bleating of the entertainment industry every time some new technology comes along, it has not caused the death of entertainment. The only thing that is different with the internet is it has made it a lot more visible than it used to be. The entertainment industries have used this visibility as an excuse to lobby governments and pay for new laws, but it hasn't made any difference to piracy whatsoever.

This is very true and a different argument. Some people only want free stuff and will take it at every opportunity. The comment was directed at people who make up excuses to say what they are doing is ok.

There is a saying we have here: "You don't have to lie to kick it." Meaning: You can still hang out with me, don't worry about making a story up.

I don't need a laundry list of excuses that you feel it should be ok (morally or otherwise) - in reality it's not. Let's not make up mathematical equations so that we can stick that "X" factor in.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by HarryT

That, from my point of view, is like saying that car thieves benefit the motor industry on the grounds that people who steal Fords enjoy driving them so much that they will subsequently go out and buy a Ford .

Maybe they do, anyone who was used to joyriding Fords when they were a kid would probably be more likely to buy a Ford than any other type of car. I know that's the way it works with computer software. Someone who learnt how to use an unauthorised copy of Photoshop would be more likely to buy Photoshop when they turned pro than any similar program.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It's pointless trying to use real world items in your analogies, they just don't fit. Someone would have to use a Star Trek replicator to duplicate your ebook reader for it to be the same. Two people would then have an ebook reader, but only one of them would have paid for it.

Would the second person have bought an ebook reader if they couldn't get one for free with the replicator? If you refused to let them replicate your reader, would they rush out and buy their own, or would they just replicate somone else's reader instead? Would the ebook reader manufacturer benefit from having large numbers of people using their reader even if some of those people didn't pay for it? Would it matter if people just collected ebook readers and never used any of them?

This is a real world situation. I don't live anywhere but the real world. Just because you also have the ability to make multiple copies does not stop the initial action. You took something without permission. How do you feel if someone takes something of yours without your permission?

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

This is very true and a different argument. Some people only want free stuff and will take it at every opportunity. The comment was directed at people who make up excuses to say what they are doing is ok.

There is a saying we have here: "You don't have to lie to kick it." Meaning: You can still hang out with me, don't worry about making a story up.

I don't need a laundry list of excuses that you feel it should be ok (morally or otherwise) - in reality it's not. Let's not make up mathematical equations so that we can stick that "X" factor in.

And just maybe, "we" don't want a laundry list of excuses why you think it's morally depraved.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

No, it has made it a lot more frequent, as well. Both in numbers of participants and in amounts pirated by each person.

What evidence is there of that? If piracy has increased to such an extent, why are all the entertainment industries still doing so well? Surely they would be reporting a massive drop in profits by now?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

What evidence is there of that? If piracy has increased to such an extent, why are all the entertainment industries still doing so well? Surely they would be reporting a massive drop in profits by now?

Are they doing well? I've certainly read reports that music piracy has had a significant impact on the profits of the large record companies.

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

This is a real world situation. I don't live anywhere but the real world. Just because you also have the ability to make multiple copies does not stop the initial action. You took something without permission. How do you feel if someone takes something of yours without your permission?

So if you want to use real world analogies, do you ever shop at a second hand store? Goodwill? Garage sales? Freecycle? Ever borrowed a friends clothes or car or anything?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

So if you want to use real world analogies, do you ever shop at a second hand store? Goodwill? Garage sales? Freecycle? Ever borrowed a friends clothes or car or anything?

It's the "without permission" part that's significant. If a friend chooses to lend you her car, or an author chooses to give you a copy of his book, that's absolutely fine, and I'm sure that nobody has an issue with it. It's when you take your friend's car without asking her, or you obtain a copy of the author's book without the author's permission, that the issues arise. In both cases, it's for your friend or the author to decide whether they wish to lend you their car, or give you a copy of their book. It's wrong (IMHO) for you to just walk up and take them.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are they doing well? I've certainly read reports that music piracy has had a significant impact on the profits of the large record companies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/24/te...y/24music.html

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I don't need a laundry list of excuses that you feel it should be ok (morally or otherwise)

I'm fairly ambivalent about it. It's something that happens, and will continue happening whatever new ideas people come up with to stop it from happening. If you are a content creator, it is something you need to work around, just like all the other things you need to work around.

There's no point looking at 30,000 downloads and then thinking you've somehow lost $150,000 and that's why you're only making $10 a month from your writing. There are ways to make piracy work for you. I've detailed some of them in the writers forum over the last few months, but I should probably compile them all one day.

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's the "without permission" part that's significant. If a friend chooses to lend you her car, or an author chooses to give you a copy of his book, that's absolutely fine, and I'm sure that nobody has an issue with it. It's when you take your friend's car without asking her, or you obtain a copy of the author's book without the author's permission, that the issues arise. In both cases, it's for your friend or the author to decide whether they wish to lend you their car, or give you a copy of their book. It's wrong (IMHO) for you to just walk up and take them.

But clearly you have permission if you are either downloading it from someone who has uploaded it or if you are receiving it from a friend.
ETA never mind, reading fail. If you get a copy of a book from a used bookstore, you certainly don't have the authors permission to buy that book for a dollar, right?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/24/te...y/24music.html

Thank you; that report seems to confirm what I'd read elsewhere, which is that music sales have been declining for the last decade:

The International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, a trade group based in London, said last week that sales of music in digital form had risen only 6 percent worldwide in 2010, even as the overall music market had shrunk 8 percent or 9 percent, extending a decade-long decline.

In each of the past two years, the rate of increase in digital revenue has approximately halved. If that trend continues, digital sales could top out at less than $5 billion this year, about a third of the overall music market but many billions of dollars short of the amount needed to replace long-gone sales of compact discs.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

But clearly you have permission if you are either downloading it from someone who has uploaded it or if you are receiving it from a friend.

I'm afraid I don't understand that. Why is it the case that "clearly you have permission" if you download a copy of a song or a book that someone has uploaded illegally?