Piracy Experiment

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by puddych

I just get so fed up with money grabing which goes far over decent bounderies...does this make me a bad person..I do not think so..I just addapt to a crazy world

So the definition of "money grubbing" is "charging more than you want to pay for something", and because it's more than you want to pay, it's therefore okay for you to steal it?
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by ikonixx

But, that's just it. Say that the ebook was purchased and the DRM was stripped then the author was paid for his/her work.

By the original purchaser/converter. But not by the potentially huge number of people who then downloaded the pirate copy.

What incentive is there for an author to write books, let alone for a publisher to publish them, when that situation exists?
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Dennis

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

By the original purchaser/converter. But not by the potentially huge number of people who then downloaded the pirate copy.

What incentive is there for an author to write books, let alone for a publisher to publish them, when that situation exists?
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Dennis

I've never heard of a writer who writes to get rich.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

Your argument doesn't really make any sense. I could have simply made a copy of the paper book before selling it/passing it on.

Sure, if you're willing to go through the trouble, and if the copy you made meets your requirements for having a copy. Like I said, you can't keep the original.

An ebook can remain 1 file, not duplicated by that person, the same as a dtb could. They are both bought at one point, altered either by stripping/conversion or by bending the spine or marking the pages, and can be passed on for free. A dtb can be passed around as long as the book life, which considering there are still writings from thousands of years ago, could even be seen as longer than an ebook life seems feasible.

Yes, it's possible for an ebook to remain one file, not passed on, just as it is for a paper copy. It's just less likely.

As mentioned, the likelihood something will be copied depends in part on how easy it is. Copying a paper book takes a fair bit of time and effort, and is less likely to happen. Copying an ebook is a lot easier and faster.

If it is dead easy to copy and share, and if the book in question is at all popular, what's to stop illegal copying and sharing?
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

I've never heard of a writer who writes to get rich.

No, though some have.

But most of them would like to at least make some money (defined as "better than minimum wage for the hours spent"), and maybe even make their living writing. How do you propose they do so?
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by guyanonymous

Copyright infringing...not stealing.

As far as the law is concerned, that is theft.
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Dennis

[dncharles]

Originally Posted by jhempel24

I'll be honest, I don't know where you are looking, but about 90% of the books I've actually downloaded were pretty much retail versions.

There are a TON out there that are JUNK though. And yes, it's easier to just buy the book and have it professionally formatted....unless it's through Smashwords, then they format like pirates.

This is a bit harsh on Smashwords. It's out there for works of all quality, sets formatting standards, gives endless advice, employs checkers and good conversion software and does what it can to get a good looking, readable product out there- all at no cost to the author.

You gotta remember that it's an open system - anyone can publish, and often it's a case of RIRO (rubbish in, rubbish out). I say bless them for their acceptance of all, for letting the market decide on talent, and for not being as anal as Apple, who demand total html perfection before they'll take you onto their precious platform.

[Belle2Be]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Sure, if you're willing to go through the trouble, and if the copy you made meets your requirements for having a copy. Like I said, you can't keep the original.

It's less trouble than getting all the software/hardware it takes to convert a file.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Yes, it's possible for an ebook to remain one file, not passed on, just as it is for a paper copy. It's just less likely.

As mentioned, the likelihood something will be copied depends in part on how easy it is. Copying a paper book takes a fair bit of time and effort, and is less likely to happen. Copying an ebook is a lot easier and faster.

If it is dead easy to copy and share, and if the book in question is at all popular, what's to stop illegal copying and sharing?
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Dennis

It's not just less likely, its MUCH less likely. Look at VHS's, for example. Cassette tapes. Soon enough, CD's and DVD's. While someone may still have the correct files and device to read that file, it'll evolve enough that that particular file will be useless.

A monkey could copy a paper book. It takes one large green button. Not a huge percentage of readers know how to copy or share an ebook. It's only easy and fast if you have the hardware and software and know-how to do so.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Belle2Be

It's less trouble than getting all the software/hardware it takes to convert a file.

<blink>

Hardware. You need a PC. There are something over a billion of those worldwide.

Software: You need something that can take an existing ebook, strip the DRM, and optionally convert to a different format. The tools to do that are free, open source, and not at all hard to find and learn to use if you are motivated to do so in the first place.

It's not just less likely, its MUCH less likely. Look at VHS's, for example. Cassette tapes. Soon enough, CD's and DVD's. While someone may still have the correct files and device to read that file, it'll evolve enough that that particular file will be useless.

Physical storage mediums certainly evolve, and I spend the odd hour dealing with the fact, and getting data off an obsolete medium and onto something more accessible. Data file formats also evolve, and I may spend even more time doing format conversion. But neither of those concerns are relevant to what we're discussing, which is the ease of copying and sharing an ebook.

A monkey could copy a paper book. It takes one large green button.

A monkey with access to a fancy copier that can automagically seperate that bound book into pages and copy the pages, then properly collate the output. Otherwise, it's a lengthy manual process. (I've spent the odd hour dealing with volume copiers, too, and have in the past been a "key operator" for such devices.)

Not a huge percentage of readers know how to copy or share an ebook. It's only easy and fast if you have the hardware and software and know-how to do so.

It doesn't take a huge percentage to do it. You just need one person motivated to do it for any particular book. Once done, endless copies can be made, and the spread can be viral.

And once the copy is made and uploaded, it's not terribly difficult to find and download. Sure, that particular ebook file format may become obsolete, and in ten years it may be fun to find something to read it with, but for most books, in ten years no one will be interested in reading it and it won't matter.

I think you overestimate the difficulty of the process.
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Dennis

[ficbot]

MrsJoseph, as I said---I do not condone piracy, I do not use pirate sites, and I pay for my books. I was just responding to the imho ridiculous idea that authors 'deserve' to get paid just like someone who works a full-time job. They do not. Writing a book does not entitle one to full-time job income. It IS a commission sales job, imho, and I do think that customers who use should pay. BUT if they are not, there is a reason and if the authors want to convert those users to customers who pay, they need to work out what that reason is and address it. Arguing about right/wrong/moral etc. does NOT address those reasons and solve the problem.

[silasgreenback]

Originally Posted by ficbot

...if they are not, there is a reason and if the authors want to convert those users to customers who pay, they need to work out what that reason is and address it.

I won't say anything pro or con about piracy and infringement, but in my little world, the object of the game is to make me want to buy tangible paper copies. I'm probably not the only person and can only speak for myself, but to me if the book isn't on paper, it's not much more than an enjoyable advertisement.

[ruel]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But they do have a choice over whether it stays there, and whether Google provides links to it. Anyone can set up an alert to tell them as soon as something is uploaded, and have it removed just as easily.

There are a few places where you can't do that, but those are not mainstream places so the small minority of people who use them don't statistically matter. (not that any of them do, but I think I would have trouble convincing you of that).

Yes, you can occasionally get Google to stop indexing certain pages if you have a copyright claim, but once a file gets on file sharing websites it spreads like wildfire. Once one websites has a file it will spread to other websites within hours. There really is no way to get a file is removed. I don't think even the US government would be able to get a file off the internet, which seems to have held true with WikiLeaks (which now has over 1400 mirrors).

[silasgreenback]

Originally Posted by ruel

Yes, you can occasionally get Google to stop indexing certain pages if you have a copyright claim, but once a file gets on file sharing websites it spreads like wildfire. Once one websites has a file it will spread to other websites within hours. There really is no way to get a file is removed. I don't think even the US government would be able to get a file off the internet, which seems to have held true with WikiLeaks (which now has over 1400 mirrors).

I remember a character on Newsradio saying pretty aptly that "trying to get something taken off the internet is like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool".

[kranu]

Originally Posted by silasgreenback

I remember a character on Newsradio saying pretty aptly that "trying to get something taken off the internet is like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool".

All they have to do is buy a new sign that says "swimming ool". Problem solved

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by dncharles

This is a bit harsh on Smashwords. It's out there for works of all quality, sets formatting standards, gives endless advice, employs checkers and good conversion software and does what it can to get a good looking, readable product out there- all at no cost to the author.

You gotta remember that it's an open system - anyone can publish, and often it's a case of RIRO (rubbish in, rubbish out). I say bless them for their acceptance of all, for letting the market decide on talent, and for not being as anal as Apple, who demand total html perfection before they'll take you onto their precious platform.

Actually Smashwords has a VERY STRICT way they want their books to go through their shredder, and it usually produces garbage. I've NEVER bought a book from Smashwords that I haven't had to re-edit. I'm talking a simple TOC to chapter breaks, to changing line spacing because it's not consistent.

I'm not the only one that feels this way. People usually don't buy ePubs from Smashwords unless it's the only way they can get it without DRM.