Wanted: Iraqis who appreciate freedom

[KenJackson]

Prior to America's liberation of Iraq, there were mass graves, zero infrastructure, and punishments including rape rooms, cutting off hands, and being thrown off a roof. I believe America has done a wonderful thing in Iraq, and I think there surely must be some Iraqis that have noticed it.

I want to read about some gratitude.

Spectrum Magazine had an article a while back about the electrical infrastructure and it's long, slow journey from extremely bad to just a little better. I'm especially interested in technical details like that, or maybe about the economy in general. Have any Iraqis noticed life is better? Have any Iraqis written about it? Or an American who's worked closely with the Iraqis?

There are lots of selections when I search for Iraq on any book site, but I thought I'd ask specifically for suggestions.

[Belfaborac]

I think you'll have a hard time finding anything, since I believe your underlying premise is faulty. As does all my Iraqi friends.

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by Belfaborac

As does all my Iraqi friends.

How many Iraqi friends do you have?
How long has it been since they were in Iraq?
Do they find living in Norway preferable to their home country? Why?

[bhartman36]

I've got an Iraqi friend on Facebook. I've pointed her to this thread. I don't know if she'll comment, but she's an avid reader (although she doesn't have an e-reader). Anyway, I suspect there aren't a lot of Iraqis on the board, but that's just a guess...

[Belfaborac]

Originally Posted by KenJackson

How many Iraqi friends do you have?

Hmmm...

Not quite sure, to be honest, and I guess it might also depend on one's definition of "friend". Mine's rather narrower than most I think. Anyway, there are about 11 families I regularly/semi-regularly socialise with, of which I'd call maybe 11-12 friends (by my definition). Most of the rest I'd term acquaintances and they'd run, at a guess, into the 60s. Some are infants and toddlers, so call it somewhere between 40 and 50 without them. That does not, by the way, include my Kurdish friends/acquaintances, many of whom would have a somewhat different view for obvious reasons.

How long has it been since they were in Iraq?

How long since they've been back is highly variable. Some have not been back for years and may never go (the old and infirm), some are there right now and most are somewhere inbetween. Most try to go every 2 years, since most have family left there. Generally they report that little or nothing has changed for the better when they return.

Do they find living in Norway preferable to their home country? Why?

As to the first: yes, to a man (or woman). Of course, they'd prefer more or less anywhere to Iraq, not just Norway.

As to the second: because they don't get killed here, because there is 24/7 electricity and water supply, because their kids can go to school, safely, because there are jobs to be had, that sort of stuff. It's somewhere to live in other words, rather than just exist. And because there is, generally, nothing left of their homes in Iraq - they've pretty much all been leveled by the coalition forces.

[ebusinesstutor]

I think your assumption that the invasion of Iraq was welcomed by its citizens is flawed.

Here is a poll done by Time where they interviewed 1,711 Iraqis which might paint a more realistic picture.

Some extracted numbers.

60% say US & Allies have done a bad job in Iraq.
65% say they oppose US troops in the country.

Some did say things are better, but not the overwhelming positive response you were hoping for.

While their life may be improved, it is a fallacy to think that most citizens who live in dictatorships want America to invade and change the country to be more like them.

[Belfaborac]

Basically, the only people whose lives were improved are the Kurds in the North and marsh Arabs in the South. Not that those are at all insignificant, but simple fact is that the vast majority of Iraqis are far worse off today than they were pre-war and will continue to be so for a long, long time.

Lots of polls have been conducted by the way and the one by Time is among the more positive ones.

I'd continue, but this is already a thread for the P&R section, so I won't....

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

I think your assumption that the invasion of Iraq was welcomed by its citizens is flawed.

Here is a poll done by Time where they interviewed 1,711 Iraqis which might paint a more realistic picture.

Some extracted numbers.

60% say US & Allies have done a bad job in Iraq.
65% say they oppose US troops in the country.

Some did say things are better, but not the overwhelming positive response you were hoping for.

While their life may be improved, it is a fallacy to think that most citizens who live in dictatorships want America to invade and change the country to be more like them.

A couple things need to be pointed out here:

1) 1,711 respondents in a country the size of Iraq (especially when you consider the difference in answers you get between the different groups) doesn't sound to me to be a large sample size.

2) More importantly, the poll you site is from 2005.

I'm not saying I know how Iraqis feel (individually or within the different groups) one way or the other, but I don't think you'll get a real picture of what the Iraqis think by looking at a poll from 2005, when things there were very different.

[dreams]

Moderator Notice
Please stick to the topic of specific book recommendations, as the Reading Recommendations forum is not the appropriate place for the discussion of politics or religion.

For those members who are interested in these topics, please review this thread.

Originally Posted by KenJackson

<snip>

There are lots of selections when I search for Iraq on any book site, but I thought I'd ask specifically for suggestions.

[Donnageddon]

Depending on any polling population bias, 1700 poll respondents is more than enough for a country the size of Iraq. Most polls in the US use 1000 respondents as their cut off.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/101872/ho...ling-work.aspx

[Donnageddon]

Thank you dreams. You make an exceptionally good point.

[AlexBell]

I come into this thread late, and maybe verging on being political.

But it is a fact that the great majority of Christians in Iraq have either fled or have been murdered. Before we invaded Iraq the church there rubbed along quite comfortably, and were an accepted part of the community. Not now.

Regards, Alex

[doreenjoy]

Mods, please move this thread over to the Politics & Religion forum..it seems to have rapidly gone off the rails.

[Alexander Turcic]

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Thread closed. Political discussions have no place in the general forums. If anyone wants to continue this discussion, feel free to begin a new thread on the topic in the (opt-in) Religion and Politics forum. Information on how to post in those forums can be found here.

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