How can we convince Amazon to sell ePub format?

[Terangan]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

There are, actually, for DRM'ed content. If I'd want to live a pirate's life, as it were, I wouldn't worry about it at all, obviously.

It's the dumbest argument I've ever heard Never heard of the DRM in ePub? Well - there is an option like that so it has nothing to do with the file format.

And what's wrong with mp3/flac analogy? Unless you don't get the point which is your problem.

I'm not going to argue any further because it's like talking to a wall.

[EowynCarter]

As an experiment, I installed Kindles4PC under Wine. It works just fine, as others have said.

Ah, does it. Last I tried some text where missing. Maybe there where some update to wine or kindle for PC.

And I know but one German publisher who's advocating ePub because it's an open format. So don't bet on their loyalty to the format. But since we're a pragmatic kind of folks (if we want to), we may simply choose to offer both formats.

On the other hand, i'm not sure how they would react to "hey, convert all your books to mobi". That's some job. (If you want to do a proper conversion). Worse part, is they might be idiots enough to go for batch converting, and not checking the results...

2) I don't see the need to introduce ePub in Amazon store. There are no problems in converting .mobi to .epub or the other way round. Those people who are not so into technology or simply don't give a damn about the file format are happy with what they get.

Wrong, they do care. More than us.
i remember a conversion like "me : oh, sure, you can use the usb cable to put books you buy from other place" "him : Oh, like amazon" "me : Ah, no, that will not work, not the same format".
We techy savy *knows* about the formats. The avrage user, as you said, don't care, won't think about looking, and eventualy get caught buying book with the wrong format.At that point, he will begin to care about what format he is buying.

[carld]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

Wrong, they do care. More than us.
i remember a conversion like "me : oh, sure, you can use the usb cable to put books you buy from other place" "him : Oh, like amazon" "me : Ah, no, that will not work, not the same format".
We techy savy *knows* about the formats. The avrage user, as you said, don't care, won't think about looking, and eventualy get caught buying book with the wrong format.At that point, he will begin to care about what format he is buying.

The average Kindle user buys their ebooks from Amazon and couldn't care less what format the books are in.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

On the other hand, i'm not sure how they would react to "hey, convert all your books to mobi". That's some job.

I'm sure they wouldn't react well to "hey, convert all your books to mobi." They would probably react better to "hey, convert all your books to mobi and double/triple/quadruple/etc. your sales." Which is the context in which converting would come up. I think they would react quite favorably to that.

The avrage user, as you said, don't care, won't think about looking, and eventualy get caught buying book with the wrong format.At that point, he will begin to care about what format he is buying.

No. For this reason:

Originally Posted by carld

The average Kindle user buys their ebooks from Amazon and couldn't care less what format the books are in.

Exactly.

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by Terangan

I don't see the need to introduce ePub in Amazon store. There are no problems in converting .mobi to .epub or the other way round.

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

There are, actually, for DRM'ed content.

Originally Posted by Terangan

It's the dumbest argument I've ever heard Never heard of the DRM in ePub? Well - there is an option like that so it has nothing to do with the file format.

I guess I'm a dumb wall too, because I can't follow your logic. Here's mine.

• I want (actually "we want", but I'll speak for myself) Amazon to sell ebooks in the EPUB format so I can continue to enjoy shopping at Amazon.com and read my purchased ebooks on my purchased eReader.
• Many EPUB ebooks sold elsewhere are corrupted with Adept DRM, and Amazon would likely have to do likewise.
• Corrupted EPUBs can't be converted to any other format until they are saved uncorrupted. That's a problem. Even though it has a possible solution, it still easily classifies as a problem.
• Even if one buys in Amazon format, uncorrupts, and converts to EPUB--that's a hassle!

We all know that you can strip the DRM (uncorrupt). But there are two problems with that.

• It's fragile. The corrupting authority could change the corrupting algorithm to make DRM stripping impossible (at least for a while).
• Though unquestionably ethical if done for your own reading, some claim that it is of untested legality--something about fair use vs. DMCA.

[LaurieGator]

Just to throw another Monkey Wrench into the argument...

I picked up a Kindle 1 about 3 years ago. Back then, the only other e-reader on the market was Sony. Comparing prices, features and the number of books available to be purchased for each I decided the Kindle 1 was the better value. For 3 years I have been stocking my e-book library with Amazon books. Library book lending was not a big deal back then and the features were in Amazon's favor.

Fast forward about 3 years and we have all sorts of new things that were not available back then such as color e-readers, library book lending and books that read to us. I now have close to 1,000 books in my e-reader library. Is someone like me going to give up all of the DRM books I have to switch to a new e-reader? Not likely.

The whole AZW vs. EPub didn't become a big deal to me until I got a Nook Color and now I have an e-reader with a different format. I had a choice to make... I could strip the DRM off of all of my books so I could read my Kindle books on my Nook Color. I could also root my Nook Color so I could download Kindle for Android and still have access to all of my AZW books. I have learned a lot about Android and DRM copy protection in the last month.

I think Amazon is also banking on the fact that once you have a Kindle and you have built up a substantial e-library of your own that you are going to be very hesitant to switch over to another e-reader. This is giving Amazon a whole set of people who will likely not switch over. I don't think that Amazon is worried about losing their customer base but they are reaching out to other technologies to make sure that the Amazon books are accessible on many different devices. I also appreciate the fact that if I order an e-book by mistake then I can get a refund within 7 days. If I screw up in the Barnes and Noble store I am stuck with the book. Customer service is very important too!

I don't forsee that Amazon will be forced to accept and sell books in EPub format anytime soon. I think they made good choices when they first got into the e-reader and e-book market.

I prefer that books be DRM free and we are able to read any book on any e-reader. Let the stores that sell e-books battle it out on pricing and customer service.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Terangan

It's the dumbest argument I've ever heard

You live a pretty sheltered life, don't you?

Never heard of the DRM in ePub? Well - there is an option like that so it has nothing to do with the file /format.

Of course there are DRMed epubs as well. It's just that you can't freely convert DRMed .mobi files into DRMed .epub files easily, at least not as an end user, without breaking / removing said encryption first; the argument "the Kindle can do mobi files, and you can always convert them" is not true if you're dealing with encrypted content -- which, among other things, won't let you convert the format freely.

And what's wrong with mp3/flac analogy?

There are totally different formats which serve totally different needs. Diff'rent strokes, you know. They're not competing (if that's the word) for the same market segment.

Unless you don't get the point which is your problem.

My, what a charming interlocutor you are.

I'm not going to argue any further ...

I am greatly looking forward to that.

[DMB]

I'm holding back on this at the moment because I am a fairly new ebook reader. I'd like to see how things evolve. At the moment I'm enjoying a lot of free or cheap classics on the Kindle but I have been disappointed to discover how many Amazon books are available only in DT format. Then I sometimes find that the same books are available elsewhere in ePub. I am a bit lazy when it comes to doing things like stripping DRM and then changing the format so by and large I just give those books a miss at the moment.

I assume that as the ereader market expands, more publishers, not wanting to miss out on Amazon's customer base, will start issuing books in mobi as well as ePub. But it will take a long time for the format wars to get sorted.

Would it be stupid for me to buy a different ereader such as a Sony just for reading ePubs now?

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by carld

The average Kindle user buys their ebooks from Amazon and couldn't care less what format the books are in.

If that "average user" reads English...
A French guy would expect being able to read in French. And would have some serious problem doing so.
Anyway, amazon seams to have zero plan for France at the moment.

I think Amazon is also banking on the fact that once you have a Kindle and you have built up a substantial e-library of your own that you are going to be very hesitant to switch over to another e-reader. This is giving Amazon a whole set of people who will likely not switch over.

the reverse is also true. By the time amazon decides to move in France, people might have some ePub library already, and refuse to switch over.

I'm sure they wouldn't react well to "hey, convert all your books to mobi." They would probably react better to "hey, convert all your books to mobi and double/triple/quadruple/etc. your sales." Which is the context in which converting would come up. I think they would react quite favourably to that.

How do to sell mobi book in France, when 99% having e-readers uses e-readers that don't reads mobi ?

For now, I don't had much problem with Amazon. As long as they don't make an exclusivity deal on a book I really want to read, i don't give a damm about them selling ePub or not. .

I'm just scared of what they could do. I don't want an e-reading world, with only one reader, and only one shop... That would sucks !
Oh, and I don't want to be stuck with the technically inferior mobi.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

If that "average user" reads English...
A French guy would expect being able to read in French. And would have some serious problem doing so.
Anyway, amazon seams to have zero plan for France at the moment.

Since they are not allowed to discount books, I'm not sure that they would have plans for France.

the reverse is also true. By the time amazon decides to move in France, people might have some ePub library already, and refuse to switch over.


How do to sell mobi book in France, when 99% having e-readers uses e-readers that don't reads mobi ?

The e-book market in France is currently all but nonexistent. 1% of 0 is still 0.

For now, I don't had much problem with Amazon. As long as they don't make an exclusivity deal on a book I really want to read, i don't give a damm about them selling ePub or not. .

I'm just scared of what they could do. I don't want an e-reading world, with only one reader, and only one shop... That would sucks !
Oh, and I don't want to be stuck with the technically inferior mobi.

You won't be stuck with one shop, as you can buy mobi in lots of places. I'm less sure of one reader.

[OtterBooks]

Would it be stupid for me to buy a different ereader such as a Sony just for reading ePubs now?

If there are DRM'd epubs that you really want and would rather spend $200 than strip DRM to read them, go for it. If they don't have DRM, it's like two clicks in Calibre to convert.

[EowynCarter]

The e-book market in France is currently all but nonexistent. 1% of 0 is still 0.

It's taking off. 2011 looks like it will be the real kick off for e-books here.

Since they are not allowed to discount books, I'm not sure that they would have plans for France.

Well, I would gratefull from them to leave us alone.

You won't be stuck with one shop, as you can buy mobi in lots of places.

Oh, where can find books from the main publishers (I'm talking there from US and UK publishers). Oh, yeah, right, only amazon...

And really, after ePub, mobi will looks like some raw .txt. (Ok, i'm exaggerating there, but not that much).

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

And really, after ePub, mobi will looks like some raw .txt. (Ok, i'm exaggerating there, but not that much).

A LOT! You're exagerating a lot ! At least with the average novel, the main market now. (I can say it because I have the same book in mobi and ePub, and Opus and PRS-350 make a good rendering for each of them).

[screwballl]

Publishers are still on the way out, every day more and more authors, even big name ones are choosing to self publish or buy out their contract and self publish with online sources.
So as that happens, they will have the option to name their own suggested price, name the file types they want to use and the stores they want it sold at. If they choose to only use Amazon, then you take that up with the author, not expect or force Amazon to carry a different file type simply because you chose to buy a reader not compatible with the Amazon service.

[EowynCarter]

If they choose to only use Amazon, then you take that up with the author, not expect or force Amazon to carry a different file type simply because you chose to buy a reader not compatible with the Amazon service.

Even if it's an author I care about, I might be tempted to boycott the book in question, just as a principle; Even if I had a kindle. Just the idea of exclusivity deal make me like
Else, go the kindle for PC de-drming route, but only as a last option, and I would need to really really really want the book.

It's like some stuff "only on iTunes". Mm, whatever, screw you ! Not the right format. Still waiting for the Beatles on amazon mp3...