Reconsidering Cybook vs. Sony Reader

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by lmarie

I'm researching this site to try to ascertain the actual significant differences between the Cybook and the Sony 505. I'm planning to get one or the other, but this thread has seemed to wander off to a discussion of a pdf format. So, a few questions (maybe I should have started a new thread?):

Has anyone compared the number of (actual) problem issues between the two devices? (I've read and reread the wiki and the matrix several times, btw.)

I've been reading about screen blackout problems, button pressing and placement problems, warranty problems, cover problems, support problems, library listing problems, saved page problems, etc. Because I'm in the US, it might be "safer" to get a Sony, but then again, reading another long thread about support problems with Sony leads me to believe that may not be true either.

Is one or the other more "update-able"?

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks.

lmarie,

Having had my Cybook since September and having gone through three separate firmware updates (from version 0.91 to 0.98, thence to 0.99 and finally to 1.00) all of which were accomplished by downloading a zipped img file, unzipping and loading onto an SD card and then following the simple instructions to have it overwrite the firmware on my Cybook, yes, I think I'm qualified to say that the Cybook *IS* very updateable!

What I'd like to point out is that the PRS-505 is the 'third-generation' in the Sony Librie series and the second in the PRS5xx series, whereas the Cybook Gen3 is the first offering in eInk devices for Bookeen. And the Cybook, while quite functional for most users, has had it's share of 'initial release' problems. But they're being shaken out.

And then there's the formats it either does or will support. No matter how big Sony's PRS gets, until it can directly, without hacking, support one of the major DRM'd ebook formats, be it eReader, Mobipocket, Microsoft's LIT or Kindle's AZW, the PRS will always be a second-class product. (I'm not a big fan of Amazon creating the AZW format, but it's so big in the book market that, well, like Microsoft, it can always 're-define the standard'. That said, AZW has become an 'instant' standard and cannot be ignored.)

So I'd go with the Bookeen Cybook Gen3.

( Of course, I'd urge you to buy the Cybook from NAEB, http://store.naebllc.com/ as I'm part of NAEB, but that's a minor consideration, really )

Derek

[HarryT]

The important thing to realise, when reading about these "problems", is that the overwhelming majority of people have no problems. To get a genuine hardware problem with an eBook reader is a very unusual occurance indeed.

[curtw]

Originally Posted by delphidb96

<snip>
What I'd like to point out is that the PRS-505 is the 'third-generation' in the Sony Librie series and the second in the PRS5xx series, whereas the Cybook Gen3 is the first offering in eInk devices for Bookeen. And the Cybook, while quite functional for most users, has had it's share of 'initial release' problems. But they're being shaken out.

And then there's the formats it either does or will support. No matter how big Sony's PRS gets, until it can directly, without hacking, support one of the major DRM'd ebook formats, be it eReader, Mobipocket, Microsoft's LIT or Kindle's AZW, the PRS will always be a second-class product.

<snip again>

( Of course, I'd urge you to buy the Cybook from NAEB, http://store.naebllc.com/ as I'm part of NAEB, but that's a minor consideration, really )

Derek

Derek,

I'm in the same boat as the initiator of the discussion. I *was* absolutely convinced that the Cybook was the right way to go: it's agnostic on input formats (including probably he least-intrusive DRM), it has Mobi dictionary features, and the support of NAEB really means a lot. However, the first "real" round of user comments/complaints has made me somewhat wary. More and more people are complaining about the page-change button, and others have commented about the button's finish wearing off after a few weeks. It makes me really worry about the long-term reliability of the device.

I really hate to say it, but in spite of their evil DRM practices of the past (CD rootkits), I am seriously considering the Sony. In addition, a couple of the features of the PRS-505 have got me thinking that is going to be more similar to the p-book experience that I know and love (I'm talking about instant-on, and turning on right to the last page read).

I've owned two Sony PDA's (and two of their camcorders, a portable CD player and countless Walkmen). With the exception of one pair of headphones, all have been wonderfully solid machines. If Sony is working on a device like an e-book reader, I just *know* that their designers have made sure that the page-change button is going to be good for a million presses. I just can't work up that kind of confidence in Bookeen. There is absolutely no engineering information on their web site, and no company history in the "technical" section of their FAQ that tells me whether they have taken a five-year life cycle into account for their device.

I was hoping that you might be able to help convince me that both Bookeen and NAEB are laying the proper groundwork to deal with the inevitable warranty returns. I would have taken this question to the NAEB forums, but I haven't been able to log in for a week (you might want to get somebody to look into that). I was one of the folks who pre-registered to order your device when it becomes available, but I've become skittish about how much we still do not know about the Cybook. Otherwise, all of the other features of the Cybook aren't going to be able to overcome that nagging little man in my head that keeps talking about Sony's hardware reliability and warranty support. Can you help?



Curt

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by curtw

However, the first "real" round of user comments/complaints has made me somewhat wary. More and more people are complaining about the page-change button, and others have commented about the button's finish wearing off after a few weeks. It makes me really worry about the long-term reliability of the device.

It is human nature for the minority of unhappy people to complain, and for the happy majority to stay silent. I've now had my CyBook for approaching two months and can report personally that it is an EXCELLENT device.

In addition, a couple of the features of the PRS-505 have got me thinking that is going to be more similar to the p-book experience that I know and love (I'm talking about instant-on, and turning on right to the last page read).

You can have "instant on" with the Gen3 if you wish. It's your choice whether to wait 20 seconds for it to boot (which is really NOT a long time), or whether to disable auto-shutdown and have "instant on".

The fact that it takes you to the library screen on start-up is beneficial if you have several books on the go at once. To get to where you were in the last book takes ONE BUTTON PRESS. That's really a concern for you?

I've owned two Sony PDA's (and two of their camcorders, a portable CD player and countless Walkmen). With the exception of one pair of headphones, all have been wonderfully solid machines.

Having owned both a Sony Reader and a Gen3, to my mind they are very much on a par, quality wise, and the Gen3 wins hand-down in terms of format support. Go for the Gen3 - you won't be disappointed.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The fact that it takes you to the library screen on start-up is beneficial if you have several books on the go at once. To get to where you were in the last book takes ONE BUTTON PRESS. That's really a concern for you?

Before I had the Cybook I thought this was going to be a bad thing. But after using it I realised it did not matter and it can be an advantage in some cases. Just shows how hard it is to predict what is going to be important.

[curtw]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You can have "instant on" with the Gen3 if you wish. It's your choice whether to wait 20 seconds for it to boot (which is really NOT a long time), or whether to disable auto-shutdown and have "instant on".

So, is there the ability to make it ignore button presses? I did not see this described in the Mobipocket user guide, and I hear that this is all that the switch on the Reader really does (and that there's a software shutdown that requires a 20-second start-up, similar to Cybook's).

But as I said, this is not my major concern. My main question is, "What kind of portable electronics has Bookeen built before the Cybook?" A list of their credentials would go far. If they have limited experience in the field, how did they spec their components? I don't expect them to hand out design sheets; I'd just like to see that they know what they're doing, and that they're not going to fold up their tents in a year. Googling only shows earlier Cybook models that got even less distribution; there's no company history in the Bookeen blog (the company profile is just a string of buzzwords). Heck, there isn't even an "About Bookeen" link on their site.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by curtw

But as I said, this is not my major concern. My main question is, "What kind of portable electronics has Bookeen built before the Cybook?" A list of their credentials would go far. If they have limited experience in the field, how did they spec their components? I don't expect them to hand out design sheets; I'd just like to see that they know what they're doing, and that they're not going to fold up their tents in a year. Googling only shows earlier Cybook models that got even less distribution; there's no company history in the Bookeen blog (the company profile is just a string of buzzwords). Heck, there isn't even an "About Bookeen" link on their site.

The original CyBook (which I also own) was (and still is) an extremely reliable machine. I've been a member of the "CyBook" Yahoo group (which deals mainly with this older machine) for years, and can recall virtually no reports of hardware failure. I certainly don't think there's the slightest risk of them going out of business in a year - they've been in the eBook business for a heck of a lot longer than Sony have. Far more chance of Sony deciding to get out of the eBook business than Bookeen, IMHO.

[curtw]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The original CyBook (which I also own) was (and still is) and extremely reliable machine. I've been a member of the "CyBook" Yahoo group (which deals mainly with this older machine) for years, and can recall virtually no reports of hardware failure. I certainly don't think there's the slightest risk of them going out of busines in a year - they've been in the eBook business for a heck of a lot longer than Sony have.

Thanks, Harry. I appreciate the feedback. I may just go and lurk in that Yahoo group for a while to help ease my concerns (I did not know that it exists). I'm not necessarily looking for a long history in the eBook business; it's portable electronics I'm concerned about; items that are thrown in a briefcase or backpack, or that need to take a real beating. Sony has a decade of experience in using push-buttons in PDA's and game controllers. Bookeen could do a lot to help generate new customers if they would just discuss their hardware approach for components other than the eInk display.

[JSWolf]

The 505 is updatable once a new firmware is released.

[HarryT]

It's a VERY low traffic group. Perhaps best to read the archived messages on the web site.

If you want a device which can "take a real beating", however, I'd steer clear of any eInk reader. The screens have a glass substrate which is rather delicate and easily fractured by bumps and knocks. They do need to be treated with care.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The important thing to realize, when reading about these "problems", is that the overwhelming majority of people have no problems. To get a genuine hardware problem with an eBook reader is a very unusual occurrence indeed.

Not everyone is mentioning the problems they are having with their device(s). There are lots of people out there with problems we've not heard from. For every person who says the device is great or has a problem, there are lots who say nothing who have similar experience.

[curtw]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's a VERY low traffic group. Perhaps best to read the archived messages on the web site.

If you want a device which can "take a real beating", however, I'd steer clear of any eInk reader. The screens have a glass substrate which is rather delicate and easily fractured by bumps and knocks. They do need to be treated with care.

Harry--

Nothing personal, but you seem to be actively avoiding my concern. Obviously a glass screen needs to be handled with care, and protected from impact/flexing. I've owned PDA's, and I've seen the results of mis-treatment.

I'm talking about daily use, which, for an ebook reader, is very likely to experience more usage cycles on the "page forward" button than 99% of all other switches out there. (I can imagine that video game controllers would come close).

Yes, the number of people with negative reports about the Cybook is small, and yes, the people with no complaints are being predictably silent. But, almost ALL of the problems reported so far revolve around that 5-way switch, and the device has only been on the market for a month. That does not make me feel very good about how well a Cybook will be working in two years.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm simply stating that if Bookeen wants to get my business, they should publicize more than just the eInk aspect of their hardware, because, IMHO, that's the only chance they have of competing with well-established hardware manufacturers (and no, I'm not even remotely considering a Kindle, for many of the same reasons).

[tompe]

Originally Posted by curtw

So, is there the ability to make it ignore button presses? I did not see this described in the Mobipocket user guide, and I hear that this is all that the switch on the Reader really does (and that there's a software shutdown that requires a 20-second start-up, similar to Cybook's).

That is not an issue when you have the leather case.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by curtw

I'm talking about daily use, which, for an ebook reader, is very likely to experience more usage cycles on the "page forward" button than 99% of all other switches out there. (I can imagine that video game controllers would come close).

But how could any user answer that question withoud using it for a long time?

From an EU perspective we have two or three years to complain if the button fails. I expect to use another reader in three years.

[curtw]

Originally Posted by tompe

But how could any user answer that question withoud using it for a long time?

I wouldn't expect any user to answer it. I would hope that the Bookeen Company would address it somewhere in their promotional literature.

Originally Posted by tompe

From an EU perspective we have two or three years to complain if the button fails. I expect to use another reader in three years.

Here in the US, we only get a 1-year warranty. While it's perfectly reasonable to expect to move on to a more advanced device in three years, I would be very upset with a hardware failure at 18 months.