Backing up K3 content to a hard drive - Page 4

bjones6416 · 01-06-2011, 12:44 AM

I don't get it. I have ALL my Kindle books on both my Kindle and in my Kindle4PC, and a lot of them on my Ally phone, so at least for me it just isn't true that DRM'd books can only be opened on one of your devices. I just had to register all of my devices to the same account/user. Until I started reading this I didn't realize it was even a problem for anybody. What could be the difference?

How do you sync between devices and read part of a book on your phone and part on your Kindle if you can't do this? Since that is one of Amazon's selling points I'm sure it's supposed to work that way for everybody. This is what my "Manage my Kindle" page looks like, with the dropdown for "Darkly Dreaming Dexter" showing. I can at any time send it to any of those three choices. (Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to make a screenshot into a jpg.)

TheKindleWorm · 01-06-2011, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjones6416

I don't get it. I have ALL my Kindle books on both my Kindle and in my Kindle4PC, and a lot of them on my Ally phone, so at least for me it just isn't true that DRM'd books can only be opened on one of your devices. I just had to register all of my devices to the same account/user. Until I started reading this I didn't realize it was even a problem for anybody. What could be the difference?

How do you sync between devices and read part of a book on your phone and part on your Kindle if you can't do this? Since that is one of Amazon's selling points I'm sure it's supposed to work that way for everybody. This is what my "Manage my Kindle" page looks like, with the dropdown for "Darkly Dreaming Dexter" showing. I can at any time send it to any of those three choices. (Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to make a screenshot into a jpg.)

Hi Betty

As long as you are downloading the books you've bought from Amazon onto your devices either via the device or app itself with the archives section OR via the manage your kindle page at the amazon kindle store, there should be no issues.

What you cannot do - at least with protected DRM books it seems - is simply copy a book from your Kindle for PC folder and place that on your Kindle or vice versa. Or indeed copy a book from any kindle app and place it into another app or kindle.

Hope that makes a bit more sense of it. It is very confusing and one day I hope they just do away with DRM altogether.

bjones6416 · 01-06-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKindleWorm

Hi Betty

As long as you are downloading the books you've bought from Amazon onto your devices either via the device or app itself with the archives section OR via the manage your kindle page at the amazon kindle store, there should be no issues.

What you cannot do - at least with protected DRM books it seems - is simply copy a book from your Kindle for PC folder and place that on your Kindle or vice versa. Or indeed copy a book from any kindle app and place it into another app or kindle.

Hope that makes a bit more sense of it. It is very confusing and one day I hope they just do away with DRM altogether.

I thought I must be misunderstanding the issue here, because I do this all the time. Thank you. But what about this statement -- HarryT, are you still here? Because this just isn't true, at least not if you put it on the different devices through the archive (the bolding is mine):

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Diap is absolutely right. Kindle DRM is device-specific, not account-specific. A Kindle book that has been downloaded for one device will not work on another, even if both devices are registered to the same account. The only circumstance in which this would work is if the book was DRM-free, as many of the free classics at Amazon are.

Or am I not understanding the term "downloaded?" I thought I was downloading when I send it to each device. ???

HarryT · 01-06-2011, 01:19 AM

Sending it to each device works just fine. What doesn't work is simply copying the book yourself from one device to another.

bjones6416 · 01-06-2011, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sending it to each device works just fine. What doesn't work is simply copying the book yourself from one device to another.

Okay, thanks, I did misunderstand the issue.

What would be the advantage of doing it the other way, though?

ATDrake · 01-06-2011, 01:31 AM

Well, not having to go and redownload specially-encoded versions of all the 500+ free books one had acquired for a new device comes to mind.

I think I'm just going to track down as many files as I can for my old K2 first, strip them, and load them up on the replacement K2, rather than dig through the Manage Your Kindle page for all the stuff. (I shudder to think of doing it over Whispernet direct from the Archives on the actual device.)

HarryT · 01-06-2011, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjones6416

Okay, thanks, I did misunderstand the issue.

What would be the advantage of doing it the other way, though?

We were discussing backing up files. Suppose Amazon went out of business, and you wanted to install "Kindle for PC" on a new PC. Would you be able to read your old books on that new PC? The answer is "no", unless they are DRM-free.

wallcraft · 01-06-2011, 11:08 AM

I think of Amazon's setup as accounts and ebooks (files).

Your account lives on Amazon's servers, and it knows what ebook titles you own and what devices they are authorized on and which actually have copies of each ebook. If you ask for a new download, the server takes its master copy of that ebook and encrypts it for exactly the device/app+device you own (e.g. based on serial numbers, etcetera). So the files are locked to a single device, but your account allows (typically) 6 devices to have their own copies of each ebook.

This is why existing ebooks (files) still work when you switch accounts at Amazon. All new downloads will be from the new account and you can't get to the old account's ebooks (at Amazon). However, the ebook files from the old account still work because the device does not "know" about your account - it just knows how to decrypt ebooks when they are targeted uniquely to its serial number (or whatever the unique device id is).

An interesting end case is what happens if you have the same ebook in two accounts. Would the ebook file be identical if it was downloaded to the same device from the two accounts? From a DRM point of view, the original encryption (e.g. used on the Kindle 1) definitely was identical. I don't know if this is still the case with the latest Kindle 3 (and K4PC) encryption, but remember that a Kindle 3 can still read ebooks from old accounts. So it can't be very different.

bjones6416 · 01-06-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

We were discussing backing up files. Suppose Amazon went out of business, and you wanted to install "Kindle for PC" on a new PC. Would you be able to read your old books on that new PC? The answer is "no", unless they are DRM-free.

Okay, I've got it, thanks. I'm not particularly worried about Amazon going out of business, but I understand that some people are. Moving on...

DiapDealer · 01-06-2011, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

I don't know if this is still the case with the latest Kindle 3 (and K4PC) encryption, but remember that a Kindle 3 can still read ebooks from old accounts. So it can't be very different.

The DRM is nearly identical... only the key (and how it's generated) to unlock it has changed

Barty · 01-06-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallcraft

I think of Amazon's setup as accounts and ebooks (files).

Your account lives on Amazon's servers, and it knows what ebook titles you own and what devices they are authorized on and which actually have copies of each ebook. If you ask for a new download, the server takes its master copy of that ebook and encrypts it for exactly the device/app+device you own (e.g. based on serial numbers, etcetera). So the files are locked to a single device, but your account allows (typically) 6 devices to have their own copies of each ebook.

This is why existing ebooks (files) still work when you switch accounts at Amazon. All new downloads will be from the new account and you can't get to the old account's ebooks (at Amazon). However, the ebook files from the old account still work because the device does not "know" about your account - it just knows how to decrypt ebooks when they are targeted uniquely to its serial number (or whatever the unique device id is).

An interesting end case is what happens if you have the same ebook in two accounts. Would the ebook file be identical if it was downloaded to the same device from the two accounts? From a DRM point of view, the original encryption (e.g. used on the Kindle 1) definitely was identical. I don't know if this is still the case with the latest Kindle 3 (and K4PC) encryption, but remember that a Kindle 3 can still read ebooks from old accounts. So it can't be very different.

This is correct. The book is encrypted for the device when you download it to that device. That is why the drm removal tool needs the serial number or PID to work. It doesn't need to know anything about your amazon account.

The reason you can read the same book on multiple devices is not because the book is encrypted to your account, but your devices are registered to the same account. If you take the file that is on one device and do a byte comparison with the file on another device, I'm 99% sure they will be different. If you just copy the file on one kindle and put it on another, it will not be able to open it, even if they are both registered to your account. Again, because it is encrypted to the device. Now, if you sync your kindle, it will download another copy encrypted for that kindle and it will work.

DiapDealer · 01-06-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

If you take the file that is on one device and do a byte comparison with the file on another device, I'm 99% sure they will be different.

I've done the comparison... you should have went with 100% sure.

(If the book is DRMed, of course)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Constant Hard Drive Access	Soulsykk	Calibre	3	12-22-2010 11:51 AM
backing up Calibre folder on USB drive	dcarlozzi	Related Tools	4	06-01-2010 08:59 AM
Can I have the program on an external hard drive?	ziegl027	Calibre	3	02-01-2010 12:18 PM
Backing up\converting hard copy to eBook	Kino	Bookeen	8	06-12-2009 12:44 PM
Easy hard drive data archiving with a USB hard drive adapter	Bob Russell	Lounge	24	02-20-2007 04:15 PM

01-06-2011, 01:19 AM	#49
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,548 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Sending it to each device works just fine. What doesn't work is simply copying the book yourself from one device to another.

01-06-2011, 01:31 AM	#51
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	Well, not having to go and redownload specially-encoded versions of all the 500+ free books one had acquired for a new device comes to mind. I think I'm just going to track down as many files as I can for my old K2 first, strip them, and load them up on the replacement K2, rather than dig through the Manage Your Kindle page for all the stuff. (I shudder to think of doing it over Whispernet direct from the Archives on the actual device.)

01-06-2011, 11:08 AM	#53
wallcraft reader Posts: 6,977 Karma: 5183568 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mississippi, USA Device: Kindle 3, Kobo Glo HD	I think of Amazon's setup as accounts and ebooks (files). Your account lives on Amazon's servers, and it knows what ebook titles you own and what devices they are authorized on and which actually have copies of each ebook. If you ask for a new download, the server takes its master copy of that ebook and encrypts it for exactly the device/app+device you own (e.g. based on serial numbers, etcetera). So the files are locked to a single device, but your account allows (typically) 6 devices to have their own copies of each ebook. This is why existing ebooks (files) still work when you switch accounts at Amazon. All new downloads will be from the new account and you can't get to the old account's ebooks (at Amazon). However, the ebook files from the old account still work because the device does not "know" about your account - it just knows how to decrypt ebooks when they are targeted uniquely to its serial number (or whatever the unique device id is). An interesting end case is what happens if you have the same ebook in two accounts. Would the ebook file be identical if it was downloaded to the same device from the two accounts? From a DRM point of view, the original encryption (e.g. used on the Kindle 1) definitely was identical. I don't know if this is still the case with the latest Kindle 3 (and K4PC) encryption, but remember that a Kindle 3 can still read ebooks from old accounts. So it can't be very different.

Advert

Advert