Amazon Censorship Expands

[elcreative]

Define "Real Literature" please or do I take it this is anything you or others consider to be worthy... gems such as Tropic of Cancer, Tropic of Cancer etc. or popular novels that critics look down their noses on... Using "Real Literature" as a definition of safety is just as bad as any other criteria used... it's a matter of someone else's opinion... and there are plenty of people who would ban literary works as well as more popular works...

Originally Posted by ebookrights1

Real literature is safe, just so long as people can keep Reality in perspective.

And that Freedom of Speech has limits.
Like good taste.
And common sense.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Define "Real Literature" please or do I take it this is anything you or others consider to be worthy... gems such as Tropic of Cancer, Tropic of Cancer etc. or popular novels that critics look down their noses on... Using "Real Literature" as a definition of safety is just as bad as any other criteria used... it's a matter of someone else's opinion... and there are plenty of people who would ban literary works as well as more popular works...

Exactly.

[elcreative]

Dammit kennyc, got to stop doing this agreeing...

Originally Posted by kennyc

Exactly.

[carld]

I'd rather not have Fox News determining what books I have available to me.

[Duiker]

Originally Posted by mboothe

How the heck is refusing to sell sick, perverted crap censorship? I would be offended if they didn't remove it.

Ever read American Psycho? You can buy it at Amazon. I have a pretty high tolerance for violence and "sick, perverted crap" but even I couldn't finish American Psycho. It doesn't mean I think they should pull it off the shelf.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by carld

Oh good Lord, this book isn't about promoting rape. It's a novel about a rapist, it no more promotes rape than American Psycho promotes murder or the Saw movies promote insane serial killers.

PS: And I guess we should ban this book for promoting rape, and this one, and this one, and this one for having a title that's much too provocative.

This book has several stories of rape and incest. Let's not forget to add it to the list!

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by ebookrights1

Real literature is safe, just so long as people can keep Reality in perspective.

Who decides what real literature is? And once decided, from what/who is it safe?

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by Solicitous

So....you will stop buying your ebooks from Amazon because they are removing ebooks for censorship reasons of which you do not purchase nor intend to???

Great, lets all stop buying from companies who are no longer stocking products/items which we have absolutely no interest in.

If on the other hand you were interested in the titles that Amazon are pulling from sale I can completely understand, but if you have no interest in rape/incest/what-ever-other-phrase-Amazon-are-banning then......I think you're mad.

I do feel on this topic of Amazon that they should actually inform people why their ebooks are being removed, and not just a generic violation of terms.

I really don't care about South Africa, but when they had apartheid I would support a boycott of them, even though I don't think I buy South Africa products.

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I refuse to use wikipedia as any resource for anything and am on record here for that position.

when I was in Europe, I saw what was told to me was a snuff flick. and that is pretty much all I want to say about it

hmm, Amazon does sell a type of "snuff" film:
http://www.amazon.com/Faces-Death-Co...4068228&sr=8-1

with real and fake footage of real people dying on camera. Can I rest my case now

[tompe]

Originally Posted by eppythacher

hmm, Amazon does sell a type of "snuff" film:
http://www.amazon.com/Faces-Death-Co...4068228&sr=8-1

with real and fake footage of real people dying on camera. Can I rest my case now

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/madmen/snuff.asp

Conclusion: When it comes to snuff films, it's easy to be
romanced by what appears in the news into believing verifiable
examples of the genre are out there. Time and again, however,
what was ballyhooed as the seizure of a cache of snuff films
turns out to be the netting of fakes like the _Flower of Flesh
and Blood_ tape or compilation films of the _Faces of Death_
ilk. These aren't snuff films . . . but you rarely see members of
the press taking pains to make this point clear, thus leaving the
general public with the idea that tapes of such murders abound.

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by Fbone

You may be correct. At the bottom of each listing are the buttons to report inappropriate conduct and copyright violations.

This may be an automatic response by Amazon.

From the author of the banned books:

You [Amazon] pulled my titles because that reporter at the Fox affiliate labeled my book pornography. If you actually HAD done your research, you'd see that they do not fall under that category. I can see them being viewed as erotica because the sex is very intense...and not at all sugar-coated...but that's it. And they were on Amazon's website being offered for sale for years without a problem. So will you also be removing other books once viewed as porn, like "Ulysses" and "Henry and June" and "Lolita"? Will you continue to offer DVDs of movies that depict the torture and rape of women, like "Straw Dogs" and "A Clockwork Orange"?

...But I'm making an exception on this thread simply because censorship infuriates me and also to show how inane and uninvolved so many Americans are when it comes to their freedom -- re: the "meh" comment. "If it don't affect me, then *shrug*." But they'll be the loudest to howl when something they want is taken away from them.

I greatly appreciate all the comments and leads to others going through the same thing as me. I've also been informed since the Fox reporter labeled my book as porn, I may have a slander suit against her. It's harmed my books sales and reputation. Hmmm...something to look into after I get home.

In the meantime, the hell with Amazon!!!

[nguirado]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

This book has several stories of rape and incest. Let's not forget to add it to the list!

Yes, it does. It shows that there's a way to talk about reality without succumbing to the prurient. I'm sure you can tell the difference between books that discuss rape and incest to make a point and those that do to titilate.

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by screwballl

Everything being said here is all rehash of what has already been said over the past 13 pages so it may be better for all to just let this subject die.

I look forward to restarting this thread as Amazon continues to bans books into the future. Lets be honest, most book topics are not really interesting to the majority of people. Censorship will always be a interesting topic. Also, looking forward 50 years into the future, do you think there will be a online bookstore that has every book every written available for sale? I think there will. These treads will also be important for future students and scholars to show how people thought in this time. This is one of the things I don't understand about people or companies; that they are going against the tide of history. In the US, the tide is for the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage. People are fighting it now but I would be very surprised if in 50 years both would still be illegal. The US is now letting gays into the military. How do you think history will judge the people that are anti gay, drug, and pro censorship? I think it will be like when we watch films of senators being anti black, or anti giving the women the right to vote.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by eppythacher

I look forward to restarting this thread as Amazon continues to bans books into the future. Lets be honest, most book topics are not really interesting to the majority of people. Censorship will always be a interesting topic. Also, looking forward 50 years into the future, do you think there will be a online bookstore that has every book every written available for sale? I think there will. These treads will also be important for future students and scholars to show how people thought in this time. This is one of the things I don't understand about people or companies; that they are going against the tide of history. In the US, the tide is for the legalization of marijuana and gay marriage. People are fighting it now but I would be very surprised if in 50 years both would still be illegal. The US is now letting gays into the military. How do you think history will judge the people that are anti gay, drug, and pro censorship? I think it will be like when we watch films of senators being anti black, or anti giving the women the right to vote.

I doubt very seriously it will last 50 years. I don't even think it will last 5!

[eppythacher]

Originally Posted by MaggieScratch

The reason people want to sell ebooks on Amazon is that it's EASY for people with Kindles to buy them via their Kindle. However, it seems to me that this is not the type of book that will appeal to a wide audience, and that the audience for this book, knowing that such books are difficult to purchase at a mainstream ebook retailer, might be very willing to seek out a separate site, purchase the book in Mobi format (which another site could very well sell) and either e-mail it or sideload it to their Kindles. And of course the publisher could also offer it in ePub or whatever other format they liked.

Frankly it sounds like a great business opportunity for some bright young techy person. How do you think Ellora's Cave started? It was a niche publisher for writers of erotic fiction who had difficulty finding publishers. Readers who liked those kind of books gravitated to their site, to the extent that mainstream publishers realized what they were missing out on and began publishing that type of work after all.

Such a site won't be another Amazon, but it might make a tidy profit. I won't ask for a royalty for using my idea. You're welcome. ;-)

You are 100% correct. I don't know why so many people are arguing about Amazons rights to not sell certain books. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with about what a company's rights are. What we should be talking about is if it's a good idea morally and economically. And from a economic standpoint, it seems to alienate people for no good reason. Many crimes are committed using cell phones over AT&T networks, but AT&T does not get into trouble over that because they stay neutral. From a moral and business standpoint I thing Amazon should stay neutral like Google.