Seriously thoughtful The All New, 2011 (almost) Where Are You From? Thread

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

... Perhaps they're just more serious readers, with no time for silly polls......

Perhaps they're puzzled about why some parts of the UK (ie a monarchy) are listed separately, while another is rolled in with the Republic of Ireland. You could at least have been more consistent and made Alaska part of Canada, and listed Hawaii as a separate country.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Perhaps they're puzzled about why some parts of the UK (ie a monarchy) are listed separately, while another is rolled in with the Republic of Ireland. You could at least have been more consistent and made Alaska part of Canada, and listed Hawaii as a separate country.

Wait. Let me try and understand.

Ireland is legally two separate countries, flying two flags?

Ruled by two separate governments?

"Ireland" and "The Republic of Ireland"?

I tried to be sensitive about the well known feelings of the UK members by separating their countries, but miserably failed here.

My sincere and humble apologies to all our Irishmen and women for my ignorance in this matter. If nothing else, you've put another wrinkle in this brain.

I'm still living in the "Irelands North and South just don't like each others politics/religion" era.

Bye the way. We tried that here once.........didn't work out well at all.......

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Ireland is legally two separate countries, flying two flags?

Ruled by two separate governments?

"Ireland" and "The Republic of Ireland"?

Umm.... No.

There is Ireland. This is the republic established in the 1921 partition of Ireland, comprising most of the island of Ireland. Known as Eire in Gaelic, and Ireland in English.

Then there is Northern Ireland. This is a part of the UK with limited self-governance through an Assembly at Stormont, rather like Wales or Scotland.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is one country
Ireland (or sometimes The Republic of Ireland) is another country.

HTH

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Umm.... No.

There is Ireland. This is the republic established in the 1921 partition of Ireland, comprising most of the island of Ireland. Known as Eire in Gaelic, and Ireland in English.

Then there is Northern Ireland. This is a part of the UK with limited self-governance through an Assembly at Stormont, rather like Wales or Scotland.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is one country
Ireland (or sometimes The Republic of Ireland) is another country.

HTH

So it IS two separate countries.

"Ireland" is ruled by themselves, "Northern Ireland" is ruled by and part of Great Britain. With "limited self government", I'm not sure what that means.

Does Northern Ireland fly the British Flag?

Okay, the bottom flag is flown by Ireland, the self governing one.

The top two flags represent Northern Ireland, governed by the UK. Which is flown when?

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

So it IS two separate countries.

"Ireland" is ruled by themselves, "Northern Ireland" is ruled by and part of Great Britain. With "limited self government", I'm not sure what that means.

Does Northern Ireland fly the British Flag?

Okay, the bottom flag is flown by Ireland, the self governing one.

The top two flags represent Northern Ireland, governed by the UK. Which is flown when?

I've got a feeling that I'm going to regret this, but ...

England is the largest division of Great Britain (which comprises England, Wales, Scotland and also those adjacent islands governed from the mainland, excluding the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands).

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland was formed in 1921, after the rest of Ireland became the autonomous Irish Free State (it became the Republic of Ireland in 1949).

The UK is a monarchy and is part of the EU, though not in the Euro-zone ... best not to ask why.

The English flag is called Saint George's Cross (usually abbreviated to St George's Cross), a red Greek cross on a white background. Saint George is the patron saint of England ... and Aragón, Canada, Catalonia, Deptford, Ethiopia, Georgia, Greece, Montenegro, Palestine, Portugal, Russia, and Serbia, as well as the cities of Amersfoort, Beirut, Ferrara, Freiburg, Genoa, Ljubljana, and Moscow, as well as a wide range of professions, organisations and disease sufferers! St George's Day is April 23.

The national flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the Union Jack (also called the Union flag), so yes Northern Ireland flies the UK flag.

Yes, the bottom flag is flown by the Republic of Ireland, which is a separate country from the UK, just as the US is a separate country from Canada.

Yes, the top flag is the Northern Ireland flag. They have their own flag, just as does does England. Naturally, Scotland and Wales also have their own flags. As do the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands.

You could think of the English, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish, Isle of Man and Channel Islands flags as being a bit like the Texan Lone Star flag. The UK flag (ie the Union Jack) is equivalent to the US' Stars and Stripes.

So, in case I've confused you, the Republic of Ireland is an independent country. Northern Ireland is part of the UK.

Geographically, Alaska is located "in" Canada, but it is part of the US. Geographically, Northern Ireland is located on the island of Ireland. The largest part of the island, in the south, is one independent country that happens to be a republic (like the US) and the smallest part, in the north, is part of another country (ie the UK, which is a monarchy).

Now tell me that I've confused you ... I bet you wish you'd never asked.

Addendum
Here's an example of UK used in a list of countries:

Wikipedia: List of countries by literacy rate

[desertgrandma]

Errk. You had to bring the other countries in, didn't you?

I'm just trying to understand right now the division of Ireland, and the flags flown.

I think I got it. "Ireland" is independent, and rules itself, under the Irish Flag.

"Northern Ireland" is ruled in part (with limited self government) by GB, and flies the Union Jack, altho they also have another flag, the "Northern Ireland" flag.

Would it be accurate to say Ireland is Catholic and Northern Island is Protestant? (of course, this can't possible include everyone, just the majority?)

And what exactly does "limited self government" mean? What can or cannot Northern Ireland do without GB's permission?

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Errk. You had to bring the other countries in, didn't you?

I'm just trying to understand right now the division of Ireland, and the flags flown.

I think I got it. "Ireland" is independent, and rules itself, under the Irish Flag.

"Northern Ireland" is ruled in part (with limited self government) by GB, and flies the Union Jack, altho they also have another flag, the "Northern Ireland" flag.

Would it be accurate to say Ireland is Catholic and Northern Island is Protestant? (of course, this can't possible include everyone, just the majority?)

And what exactly does "limited self government" mean? What can or cannot Northern Ireland do without GB's permission?

By jove I think she's got it ... just about. If you think this is complicated, spare a thought for the diplomats who handle the etiquette and protocols at the UN.

However, Northern Ireland isn't ruled by GB, because GB just refers to a collection of states (ie England, Scotland and Wales) just as the part of the US without Alaska and Hawaii is just a collection of states. Northern Ireland is partly governed by the UK's Parliament, which happens to be located in England. A bit like the US is governed by Washington DC.

I should also point out that the Republic of Ireland is also know as Éire and like the UK, is also a member of the EU.

Yes, the majority of those who are religious in the Republic of Ireland are probably Catholic.

The majority of those who are religious in Northern Ireland are most probably Protestant, though there is a significant proportion who are Catholic.

As regards the meaning of "limited self government", perhaps it would be best if I posted this quotation:

" Northern Ireland has devolved government within the United Kingdom. There is a Northern Ireland Executive together with the 108 member Northern Ireland Assembly to deal with devolved matters with the UK Government and UK Parliament responsible for reserved matters. Elections to the Assembly are by single transferable vote with 6 representatives elected for each of the 18 Westminster constituencies. Northern Ireland is a distinct legal jurisdiction, separate from England, Wales and Scotland. It is also an electoral region of the European Union."

" Parliament Buildings in Stormont, Belfast, seat of the assembly Northern Ireland elects 18 Members of Parliament (MP) to the House of Commons; not all take their seats, however, as the Sinn Féin MPs (currently five) refuse to take the oath to serve the Queen that is required of all MPs. The Northern Ireland Office represents the UK government in Northern Ireland on reserved matters and represents Northern Irish interests within the UK government. The Northern Ireland office is led by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, who sits in the Cabinet of the United Kingdom."

Wikipedia: Northern Ireland: Government and politics

So it isn't the case that there are things that Northern Ireland can, or cannot, do without GB's permission, because GB doesn't control anything. GB effectively ceased to exist as a political entity (ie state, with power) when the UK was formed in 1921. It's the UK that has control, through the Parliament, in which Northern Ireland is represented.

You could think of it this way: The 3 states of GB joined with Northern Ireland and formed the 4-state UK. Alaska and Hawaii joined the the 48 state US and formed the 50 state US.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

"Northern Ireland" is ruled in part (with limited self government) by GB, and flies the Union Jack, altho they also have another flag, the "Northern Ireland" flag.

And what exactly does "limited self government" mean? What can or cannot Northern Ireland do without GB's permission?

There is no GB government, only a UK government. Northern Ireland is ruled by the UK government, as are England, Scotland and Wales.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have some devolved powers (limited self-governance was probably a poor choice of words). That is, some functions of government are decided by a Parliament (Scotland) or an Assembly (Wales and Northern Ireland).

Exactly which powers are devolved is complicated and I don't know the details. I think the Scottish Parliament might even have some limited tax raising powers.

(England has been a united country under a single Monarch since the early 900s. Wales was added to the kingdom in the early 1300s. Scotland was independent until the act of Union in 1707 created the United Kingdom of Great Britain, although England and Scotland had had the same Monarch since James VI of Scotland also became James I of England in 1603.)

[desertgrandma]

I've asked a mod to make changes.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I've asked a mod to make changes.

Cheers. How're you going to figure out where the two who voted for "Ireland (north and south!)" are located?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Cheers. How're you going to figure out where the two who voted for "Ireland (north and south!)" are located?

Give them to Canada. They're falling behind.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I've asked a mod to make changes.

Having sorted that out, perhaps we should next tackle the "Middle East (you know who you are)" ... well, upon reflection, maybe not. It might be easier to explain why the UK doesn't use the Euro currency ... well, then again, maybe not.

[Ivy]

I'm thinking we should have gone by continents

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Cheers. How're you going to figure out where the two who voted for "Ireland (north and south!)" are located?

If those members would contact a mod, their votes will CHEERFULLY be changed.....

Problem solved.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Give them to Canada. They're falling behind.

"Smmaaack!!"

Originally Posted by Ivy

I'm thinking we should have gone by continents

Not enough info......

Originally Posted by boxcorner

Having sorted that out, perhaps we should next tackle the "Middle East (you know who you are)" ... well, upon reflection, maybe not. It might be easier to explain why the UK doesn't use the Euro currency ... well, then again, maybe not.

Anyone who tries to 'tackle the "Middle East", (sort it out) in anyway shape or form, is on a fools errand.

And besides........I'm outta room.

Thank God.

But thanks to you and Pdurrant for all the help.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

There is no GB government, only a UK government. Northern Ireland is ruled by the UK government, as are England, Scotland and Wales.

I stand corrected. "United Kingdom" vs "Great Britain".

"Great Britain" is the island, "The United Kingdom" is the countries of Northern Ireland, England, Scotland, Wales.

The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are British Crown Dependencies but are not part of the UK.

Is that right?