Amazon Censorship Expands

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

If someone wants to bring an antitrust action against Amazon publishing, I suppose they could (anyone can file a lawsuit for anything). But since Amazon has such a small portion of the publishing business, it is a loser.

According to Amazon it has 70% of the ebook market in the United States. Doesn't seem to me to be a "small portion." And even if it really has closer to 50%, that is a signifcant portion of a nascent market, exactly what antitrust laws were designed to protect until the Roberts court.

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by crich70

Post #169
... in some far eastern countries the Bible is no doubt illegal or offensive to some so does that mean the Bible should be yanked off the kindle market ...

Which Far Eastern countries are you referring to; where exactly is the Christian Bible "... illegal ..."? According to this source, Christianity has a long been established and is widespread throughout Asia.

Originally Posted by rhadin

Post #179
In Pakistan, the christian bible could well be an insult to islam, requiring not only its banning but the death penalty for anyone who owns a copy.

What is your source, for that assertion? According to this source, Christians are the second largest religious minority community in Pakistan. "The total number of Christians in Pakistan is approximately 2,800,000 in 2008, or 1.6% of the population." By saying "... anyone who owns a copy ..." you seem to be implying that all Christians in Pakistan who own a copy of the Christian Bible are liable to be accused of blasphemy and receive a death penalty. That seems to be a sweeping statement, which could exacerbate the Christian Muslim conflict.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You have no proof that there was any organized campaign that specifically targeted this author's book to get it removed. It can be just as easily explained by a random audit process. I'm not saying you're wrong... just that I prefer Occam's Razor to "let's gang up and conspire to get this trash removed from Amazon" when speculating about this particular "removal".

It would be a pretty big coincidence that 3 types of books would all be targetted within a very short period of time. If it was some sort of innocent audit, why would they leave some books with similar names or content behind?

[Redcard]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

It would be a pretty big coincidence that 3 types of books would all be targetted within a very short period of time. If it was some sort of innocent audit, why would they leave some books with similar names or content behind?

I still think it's a robo-reporting job by some christian group. They've done it in the past, and it happening right after Amazon basically defended a pedophile's book suggests that someone stepped up a campaign against things that "they don't like."

If enough people hit "this is offensive", it pulls the product and goes to personal review. It's the middle of christmas break here for many amazon employees (I know a few), so that any review might be delayed.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by rhadin

An ebook not being sold by Amazon can be a funeral for that book and author (if we accept Amazon's claims of controlling 70%+ of the ebook market), whereas rejection by the corner bookstore essentially has no effect on the book or the author.

If you are writing books with extreme content, why should you be surprised if a mainstream retailer chooses not to carry your work?

Originally Posted by rhadin

because of Amazon's dominance in the ebook marketplace, it should provide authors and publishers with clear guidelines of what is acceptable beforehand

This is not going to work. Even if any self-publishing firm set out highly specific guidelines, you will always have works that are bounced when someone interprets them as being within the guidelines; and/or works that someone thinks should be bounced but are allowed anyway.

I.e. no matter how detailed the policy gets, someone somewhere is going to declare its application to be "arbitrary" and "unfair" -- especially when it's their book that gets bounced.

Nor does presence in the market provide them with any additional responsibilities. Smashwords expressly states that they can pull a work at any time for no reason whatsoever. Is that better? Is that magically acceptable because Smashwords is currently smaller? Is there a magic market share at which they would be required to elaborate on their policies?

Originally Posted by rhadin

when exercising its rights after accepting a book for sale on its site, that it provide clear guidance to the author of exactly how the book suddenly violates Amazon's guidelines when it did not violate the guidelines at time of acceptance.

Yes, Amazon is clearly exercising its rights.

You know full well that none of these services are functioning like a traditional publisher and reviewing titles prior to release. Nor are they required to do so.

Originally Posted by rhadin

In addition, there is the question of whether Amazon has the right (or if it has the right whether there is a moral obligation involved) to agree to terms of a contract with an author, accept the author's book for sale on its site, and then weeks later unilaterally change the terms of the contract and declare the author in violation of the new, unilaterally imposed terms.

Yes, they have the right.

Any retailer can pull any product off its shelves at any time. Similarly, a publisher can discontinue sales of a book at any time. One recent example is Last Train to Hiroshima by Charles Pellegrino. Due to the author apparently relying on a fraudulent source, the publisher pulled the book, and in doing so did not violate any contract.

In addition, Amazon is not "changing the terms of the contract." They reserve the right to pull a title at any time. Publishing it on May 1 and pulling it on May 10 does not indicate any change in any terms.

I suggest you stop inventing ethical and contractual obligations. If you don't like Amazon's policies, that's fine, but your objections here have no basis.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by caleb72

The pulling of a couple of books doesn't in itself bother me..... But I think it's a bit simplistic to claim that because Amazon is a business that sell what it likes, issues like this don't/can't have more profound effects on literature.

I don't think anyone is making this claim.

The point is that regardless of any level of influence, Amazon has the legal and ethical right to pull titles at any time and for almost any reason. Further, it is not "censorship" as the authors can sell their books through numerous other outlets.

Originally Posted by caleb72

I just wonder if actions like this can result in authors self-editing in an attempt to be 'acceptable' to Amazon's content guidelines.

It might, but this is a very different process than self-censorship by the media in China or Russia. If you write extreme material, you should be willing to risk getting the cold shoulder by a mainstream retailer. That's a completely different level of threat than risking a jail term or assassination attempt.

Originally Posted by caleb72

That may well satisfy a large body of readers who prefer sanitised content - but is it what we all want? And should we be slightly more concerned - even if just academically, in the possibilities?

It may not be what "everyone" wants, but that's why you have competition. (Nor is any retailer obligated to serve "everyone's" tastes.)

As to the "possibilities," we are discussing a truly minuscule number of books. If you're going to scrutinize every minute change as an indicator of future trends, then logically you can predict any possible outcome to suit your particular view. Did they feature a Leonard Zinn book on the main page? They're about to become a bunch of Communists. Did they create a Glenn Beck page with an interview? Obviously they're coddling to the Tea Party and will soon be a conservative lap-dog.

If Amazon struck 10,000 erotic titles from its site, then you'd have a big indication that they are actively altering the parameters of what they want to sell. In contrast, divining massive editorial shifts based on a handful of titles is like reading tea-leaves. Except less efficacious.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

authors can sell their books through numerous other outlets.

Where? I only know of Smashwords that has a choice of Kindle-friendly file formats, and even then you have to buy them through a computer and transfer them manually. Anyone forced to jump through those sort of hoops would be more likely to just pirate it instead.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Where? I only know of Smashwords that has a choice of Kindle-friendly file formats...

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=self+publish+book

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=self+publish+book

Like I said, there is only Smashwords that will let you publish in a Kindle-friendly format, and people would need to buy it through a computer ...

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Like I said, there is only Smashwords that will let you publish in a Kindle-friendly format, and people would need to buy it through a computer ...

~sigh~

• The Kindle is not the only ebook reader / app / platform in existence.
• Tablet, smartphone and PC users are not restricted to a single store.
• Self-publishers are not restricted to a single platform.
• There are numerous commercial outlets for ebook self-publishing.
• You can always roll your own, if you are willing to go without DRM.

I agree that getting a book pulled from Amazon is unquestionably a major obstacle. But the same holds for paper books that Walmart chooses not to carry, or B&N chooses not to feature, or a book that publishers reject (or pull after publication), or a newspaper editor chooses not to review, or a reviewer trashes. None of these facts change:

- Any retailer's right to pull a title, for almost any reason, at any time
- A publisher's right to pull a title, for almost any reason, at any time
- That freedom of speech does not guarantee you a commercial platform
- That no contracts were violated
- That pulling a handful of titles does not indicate an "expansion" of an existing policy

Need I go on?

[WT Sharpe]

Forgive me for this one-time-only posting of a book image. I realize it makes the page load longer, but I feel in this instance it is pertinent to the discussion.

Available from Amazon:



The Rape of the A.P.E. has nothing to do with rape. It's a humorous look at the "sexual revolution." I read it years ago. I was put off by the title, but read it because I liked Allan Sherman. "A.P.E." in this instance stands for "American Puritan Ethic."

Could it be that there are different rules for books by third-party sellers or older established titles?

[dmikov]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

~sigh~

• The Kindle is not the only ebook reader / app / platform in existence.
• Tablet, smartphone and PC users are not restricted to a single store.
• Self-publishers are not restricted to a single platform.
• There are numerous commercial outlets for ebook self-publishing.
• You can always roll your own, if you are willing to go without DRM.

I agree that getting a book pulled from Amazon is unquestionably a major obstacle. But the same holds for paper books that Walmart chooses not to carry, or B&N chooses not to feature, or a book that publishers reject (or pull after publication), or a newspaper editor chooses not to review, or a reviewer trashes. None of these facts change:

- Any retailer's right to pull a title, for almost any reason, at any time
- A publisher's right to pull a title, for almost any reason, at any time
- That freedom of speech does not guarantee you a commercial platform
- That no contracts were violated
- That pulling a handful of titles does not indicate an "expansion" of an existing policy

Need I go on?

Well for people who already invested in the Kindle it is effectively censorship.
You seem to forget, that while author can publish his work on Xyz site in Zyx format the reader who has the electronic device he paid money for are limited to only certain sites in this case Amazon.
It's like saying there was no censorship in Soviet Russia, because author could publish his work in some other country.
And your talk about how it is legal doesn't really change anything by the way, in some countries censorship is legal, but still called censorship.

[elcreative]

There's nothing to stop you sideloading a book onto your Kindle...

[screwballl]

Everything being said here is all rehash of what has already been said over the past 13 pages so it may be better for all to just let this subject die.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by screwballl

Everything being said here is all rehash of what has already been said over the past 13 pages so it may be better for all to just let this subject die.

And exactly what is new about that? In this thread or any of the similar threads