How can we convince Amazon to sell ePub format?

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

(No format is 'natively' supported on the iPad, in the sense of a reader coming preinstalled, but free apps are available for all current formats and DRMs)

I thought the iBooks app came preinstalled. It doesn't?

[screwballl]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I thought the iBooks app came preinstalled. It doesn't?

No it does not come preinstalled. Like Windows 7, you have to download and install the programs individually.

That is not to say OEMs don't already have loads of junk already in there, but from Microsoft/Apple themselves, the user has to add the software they want after the fact. Which I personally believe is better because it allows the person to get what they want, not have 50GB worth of useless software they will never use.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by screwballl

No it does not come preinstalled. Like Windows 7, you have to download and install the programs individually.

That is not to say OEMs don't already have loads of junk already in there, but from Microsoft/Apple themselves, the user has to add the software they want after the fact. Which I personally believe is better because it allows the person to get what they want, not have 50GB worth of useless software they will never use.

Okay, thanks. I thought they treated iBooks like Maps or iTunes or something.

[FF2]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Seems like some people equate this to a hospital refusing to carry their blood type.

Enough blood has been spilled on this thread to stock many a blood banks.

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by screwballl

..., but do not expect or demand that a private business should be FORCED to do what you want them to.

Forced? FORCED??
Who has advocated the use of force?
I haven't seen the post.

The thrust of all eight pages of this thread has been a discussion by willing participants about the amazed disbelief that Amazon really doesn't want to sell us what we want to buy and of how we might convince them to sell EPUBs and how they might actually do it.

Force is not free market. I hope you're not a statist.

[ProfCrash]

And free market does not mean that every store sells what you want it to sell.

[nboshart]

They're not going to sell EPUB. They control the majority of the market, why would they make it easy for the competition to sell books to their readers? The only thing that would make them bend is if all the EPUB retailers, especially Barnes & Noble, standardized their DRM so EPUBs could be read on all devices.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

No. Fair use is not a "right." Fair use is an exception to the *copyright* statute. Fair use means that certain acts do not legally constitute *copyright* infringement. Fair use only applies to copyright law. Fair use doesn't allow you to shoplift a book (because it's not an exception to the theft statute), nor does it allow you to snip a passage out a book in a store (because it's not an exception to the vandalism statute). Fair use doesn't allow you to violate the DMCA because that's a completely *different* law to which fair use has no application.



Yes. And like fair use, the DMCA exceptions are only exceptions to the DMCA; you can't infringe copyright to get a book that allows reading aloud just because it is permitted by the dmca in the same manner that you can't invoke fair use to violate the DMCA.

Fair use and DMCA Kind ot trounce on one another. So until a judge says which one wins, it will remain a gray area. Fair use says yes, I can strip the DRM and convert the eBook as long as it is for my use only. DMCA tries to say otherwise. Fair use existed before DMCA. And nobody has said that fair use isn't valid any longer. So we just have to wait and see what happens.

So to say fair use doesn't count is ludicrous. Fair use is fair. DMCA is unfair. DMCA tries to take away our rights under fair use.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

If they added ePub, wouldn't it slow performance? I'm asking this in light of the other thread...

Actually, no. The current eink screens and controllers along with the faster processors makes the difference negligible if any.

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by nboshart

..., why would they make it easy for the competition to sell books to their readers?

This is a surprisingly common misconception.

If Amazon starts selling ebooks in EPUB format (as I and others want), this would have no effect whatsoever on the Kindle. It would not enable Kindle owners to be unfaithful.

Originally Posted by nboshart

The only thing that would make them bend is if all the EPUB retailers, especially Barnes & Noble, standardized their DRM so EPUBs could be read on all devices.

I started to object to this, but you may have a point.

Do I understand correctly that the Nook cannot buy Adept-DRM EPUB books from other bookstore sites? If that's the case, then yes, your point makes sense. If B&N would get on board and corrupt their books the same as everyone else (with Adobe Adept), then Amazon might feel a little more pressure to not totally forfeit that market.

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

And free market does not mean that every store sells what you want it to sell.

True, not every store. But growing, very good, very popular stores most assuredly do respond to customer demands if they want to continue to grow and remain good and popular.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

As I see it. the assumption being made by most folks is that Amazon has made a poor business decision by not selling EPub books. I don't think that is the case. I think Amazon is the clear leader, maybe for the time being, in the US using Mobi. I think Amazon is making a tidy profit. If Amazon was not making a profit and they thought that the format was the issue, Amazon would change the format. Instead they added lending.

"For the time being" is the operative phrase, I think. As I see it, a year ago when BN brought out Nook, Amazon could have undercut BN either by supporting epub on the Kindle and/or by selling epub books. Instead, it seems that ever since BN got into the game, Amazon has been reactive, not proactive, e.g., the dramatic price cutting.

Amazon clearly made great decisions to become the behemoth that it is. But getting to the top is different from staying on top against the competition.

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

How is it any more sensible for BN to not sell books in Mobi format? They know that there are millions of people with Kindles who are buying books but they are not selling books to those customers. BN doesn't seem to care, and for the most part Kindle users don't seem to be complaining, so it is ok for them not to sell Mobi but it is wrong for Amazon not to sell EPub.

The point is that on the one side you have Amazon, and on the other side you have everybody else, including the public libraries. As a consumer, I've decided that it's more likely that epub will win the format wars, just as VHS won out over Betamax and Blu-ray won out over HD.

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

Both companies have made choices and yet one is deemed bad because a specific format is not used. If Amazon does control 75% of the ebook market in the US then who has made the worse choice?

Even if the number is accurate--how much of the market did Amazon control last year before the Nook? Do you think Amazon's share has been going up--or down?

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

What I get from reading these posts is that people who own Sony's, Nook's, and Kobo's want to be able to shop at Amazon and cannot do so easily. That tells me that Sony, BN, and Kobo Books are not able to meet all of their reading needs but that Amazon sells books that they would like to read.

My interpretation is that some folks, not all because I know plenty of folks who are happy with their EPub options, want the best of both worlds. They want the flexibility of EPub but for Amazon to sell the books that their bookstores are not.

I can only speak for myself--I don't need Amazon for my e-books. I'm perfectly happy shopping at BN and Kobo. With Agency pricing, Amazon has lost any possible price advantage vis-a-vis the other booksellers. For non-Agency books, Kobo's frequent coupons give me a better deal than I could get at Amazon. For books I don't need to own, there's the library. And the selection? There's been exactly one book I wanted that only Amazon carried. I can live with that.

[screwballl]

So we should force McDonalds to sell Pizza Hut pizza (or at least state our concerns here why they do not) since they are in the same business? Same thing many others are suggesting here....

[FF2]

Originally Posted by screwballl

So we should force McDonalds to sell Pizza Hut pizza (or at least state our concerns here why they do not) since they are in the same business? Same thing many others are suggesting here....

No, that discussion is reserved for the MobileEAT site.

[screwballl]

It is still a valid analogy to many of these people's expectations of Amazon