Amazon Censorship Expands

[wannabee]

I like a good argument. But this isn't one that I want. C'ya.

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Shopping in general is a painful experience for me.

Exactly my point. I was horrified at the pedifile book, but I understood Amazon's reason for carrying it. But as a business, they decided it was better to bend to public opinion rather than stick up for the 1st amendment (since Amazon is not the government, 1st amendment arguments are meaningless, unless the government makes Amazon take down the book). Amazon is now apparently trying to be proactive in taking down some books. They will obviously concentrate on the self-published books, because the books coming through major publishers have already been screened and found not be be obscene (only of interest to purient interests.)

In response to my assertion that Amazon couldn't read all of the books they put up for sale,

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Why not? Because they wouldn't make as much money if they spent time confirming that what they sell fits their standards?

As a business lawyer, I can tell you exactly what their standard is. It is to avoid selling books that will create a huge public uproar. That is their only interest in removing books. They tried to take the high road and argue the 1st amendment, but the public outcry was too much. They are not interested in upholding the 1st amendment to the detriment of their business. Now, would I write standards like that? Of course not! I don't want to debate my business strategy with every author out there. I'm sure Amazon bought some software that looks for certain words, and is slowly rolling that out to all of their books. Today it is titles - tomorrow it will be text. I'm sure you know there are email filters that do exactly the same thing.

I can understand authors who are upset at the lack of strict guidelines. But it was strict guidelines (the 1st amendment) that caused the public relations nightmare that was the pedifile book.

Now, I am not supporting pedifile books. I am just saying if their standard is not the 1st amendment, they (and their customers, and their authors) are looking at a sliding scale, and who knows where that will end. Myself, I prefer the more expansive 1st amendment view. Yes, I have to hold my nose when I see certain things. But that is just my opinion (obviously).

[nguirado]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Amazon has the right to sell or not sell anything it likes--but it's sleazy, and possibly fraud, to penalize people for not following instructions they weren't given.

Nothing in Amazon's content guidelines indicates that titles, or titles of some genres, can't contain the word "rape." A quick search turns up several other books with rape in the title, including "The High School Rape Club."

Amazon doesn't have an obligation to carry any particular content, but it does have an obligation to tell its clients what the business rules are, and to apply those rules to all its clients, not selectively by criteria they refuse to define.

It's sleazy to NOT sell a book on gay rape?

What's the US law on selling? If you own a restaurant and don't want to serve blacks or gays, that's illegal. What if as a restaurant you don't want to buy your food supplies from blacks or gays? Is that legal? Also, the US gov is a customer of Amazon, so in a since they are giving my money to a group that is uneasy around gays.

Does a doctor who does business with the government have to have gay magazines in the waiting room? I don't think you can force companies to buy anything they don't want to. You can't force them to sell something they don't want to either. So, a beauty salon can't turn away a man, but doesn't have to sell certain hair products for men. Service, yes, as long as the person turned away is of a protected category. Sexual orientation is not a federal protected class.

Far more than a bookstore not selling a particular book, I'm disturbed by the idea that people want to use the government to force businesses to sell entertainment they don't want to.

[mango]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Don't people ever get tired of silly hoopla?

nope. every one has an opinion. Even poor Harry Potter and the Twilight series is under attack for magic and witchcraft and other nonsense...usually by people who promote the Bible. It amuses me to watch it and from time to time throw a little gas on the fire to make it flame up when I can't find anything better to do...

If you don't like certain books, don't buy them. Personally I have little use for math textbooks. There was a time in my life I thought they should all be banned or burned, but I have become more tolerant in my old age.

If the book does not contravene any law, and some idiot wants to publish it and some other idiot wants to sell it, I suppose that is what they will do and the more publicity it garners, the better the sales will be. There are lots of books I will not buy or read.

[mango]

Originally Posted by eppythacher

In Canada, do they force bakeries to have menus in French and English? If I'm a company, why force me to double the cost of printing 2 menus?

yes,. in Canada it is LAW that all things must be in French and English. This is because we have two OFFICIAL languages. all things. even a can of soup....or a package of gum has both languages. Any official communications also have the other language on the other side of the paper. Have to have.

I do not belive that USA actually has a language officially in the same way that we do here. English is mosly spoken and used in government....but, I don't think it is law.

[Marcy]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The key issue isn't what Amazon does or doesn't allow in titles--it's that nowhere in its content/submission guidelines does it say "Here's a list of words you cannot use in book titles."

The author was told the the book was removed for violating Amazon's guidelines for content in book titles, but those guidelines don't say what is and isn't allowed.

It is naive to expect Amazon to give a list of the exact things you can't put in book titles/descriptions/etc.

This would simply lead to the situation today with spam emails, where they purposefully omit the key words and use alternate options to avoid spam filters, i.e. \/iagra instead of Viagra and Cia|is instead of Cialis.

There's no point in having filters if you tell everyone how to avoid them.

-Marcy

[mango]

Originally Posted by Salgueiros

Quebec has a "language police" that fines stores, and all kinds of business that have not signs in french. They are despised all over Canada for doing that, and pretty much a unique case in this country.

Of all the provinces of Canada, there is only ONE that is officially bilingual, and that is New Brunswick, all others are either english or french. Only at the federal level, bilingualism is official everywhere.

I expect you could get fined for that here in Alberta as well....all the grocery stores have bilingual signs etc etc....they are everywhere. I don't know if there have been fines, but, I would assume it is possible...or there wouldn't be all the bilingual signs. Even at Walmart.

My telus bill has French on the other side. Or English, depending which side you read. In Saskatchewan and every other province as well....

There are a lot of French speakers out here on the Prairies....more than you might suspect. It is their first language.

[taming]

There is no evidence of bilingualism, beyond what is required by the Alberta Language Act and the Feds, in Red Deer, AB. Walmart is all English all the time here . Food labels are bilingual because anything required by Federal law has to be in both official languages as do utility bills and certain other things. Good wikipedia article on bilingualism in Canada here.

[Salgueiros]

Actually this Amazon thing might be a good thing for other bookstores. Since everybody was predicting the demise of all the other bookstores because of Amazon, these bookstores might survive by providing this "niche" literature. Will be interesting though to see gay rape books next to the Iliad...

As for labeling things in Canada, everything i see is in both languages, as anyone would expect in a country with two official languages. You would not want to see cookie box labels in german while in the US right?

I must confess the only places i have seen french along with english in things other than labels is Quebec, New Brunswick and surroundings (including Ottawa). I know there are some pockets of francophones in the prairies so there the usage might be different.

[Redcard]

I don't know what's up..

I just did a search on amazon for "gay rape" (that'll make future recommendations interesting) , and a number of books came up. Some with rape in the title (seemed to be more of academic things) , most with rape in the description. The ones with it in the description were clearly for the most part erotica.

I'm wondering if there's some auto-pulldown script that people are clicking on, and if this is some outside campaign. It's how they hide comments... when enough people click the "I don't think this helped me" button and it reaches a magical threshold, based on who clicked it, the review or comment isn't only hidden, it's deleted.

That could be what's going on here, since there are clearly gay rape erotica for the Kindle on amazon.

[Cpl Punishment]

Originally Posted by HarryT

This is a very silly discussion. Amazon are a private corporation; they are perfectly at liberty to choose to sell or not to sell any product they want, and certainly don't have to justify their decisions to anybody. Nobody has a "right" to have their book sold by Amazon.

Right on the money !!!!

[Saffina Desforge]

Hmmn, hope they don't ban MY book then!

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

I am confused. Wasn't there a HUGE uproar when Amazon refused to take down the pedifile book? On this very forum? And now we are upset that Amazon is (gasp) censoring the books they are presenting for sale? Rape is against the law, as is pedifilia.

A small number of people saw what was coming, but most just picked up their pitchforks and joined the angry mob. Anyone who thinks this will end at the removal of deviant sex books is in for a surprise.

[kennyc]

Yep, I want all those religious books banned!

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

it's not even remotely similar. even equating the two shows an incredible level of ignorance

And calling something that you have never read a "snuff book" because it has the word "rape" in the title doesn't?