How can we convince Amazon to sell ePub format?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

What they don't want to do is make it easier to use someone else's kiosk, because that just makes it easier to buy from the competition. Their preference is for users of other devices to have some anxiety about their choices.

Agreed. I wonder if they took into account the alienation of long-time customers? Or if they even care? We'll see what happens in the future.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I wonder if they took into account the alienation of long-time customers? Or if they even care?

I think their expectation was that most long-time customers would follow them on board. Clearly, some haven't. I suspect they'll notice if they feel a financial impact, but whether that will happen is anyone's guess. Like you said, time will tell. At the moment, they appear to be in the iPod position, more or less. Among dedicated e-readers, at least. If someone were to, say, come up with a really cheap (cheaper than a Nook Color) tablet, or a really cheap (with, again, the Nook Color price point) color e-ink reader, I think you'd see Amazon's advantage evaporate pretty quickly. But I don't see that happening in the near future.

[mango]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Library books.

exactly that. If I can't borrow books from the library....the public or the university....what point is there in having the reader in the first place? so I can spend a lot of money buyiing books from Amazon.....hey...I'll bet that's it!!!

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Fair use says you can remove the DRM for your own use. And until it's decided in a court of law, there is no way to know what trumps what.

No. Fair use is not a "right." Fair use is an exception to the *copyright* statute. Fair use means that certain acts do not legally constitute *copyright* infringement. Fair use only applies to copyright law. Fair use doesn't allow you to shoplift a book (because it's not an exception to the theft statute), nor does it allow you to snip a passage out a book in a store (because it's not an exception to the vandalism statute). Fair use doesn't allow you to violate the DMCA because that's a completely *different* law to which fair use has no application.

There is a DMCA exception that says if there isn't a copy of the eBook that allows reading aloud, the DRM can be stripped legally.

Yes. And like fair use, the DMCA exceptions are only exceptions to the DMCA; you can't infringe copyright to get a book that allows reading aloud just because it is permitted by the dmca in the same manner that you can't invoke fair use to violate the DMCA.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

No. Fair use is not a "right." Fair use is an exception to the *copyright* statute. Fair use means that certain acts do not legally constitute *copyright* infringement. Fair use only applies to copyright law. Fair use doesn't allow you to shoplift a book (because it's not an exception to the theft statute), nor does it allow you to snip a passage out a book in a store (because it's not an exception to the vandalism statute). Fair use doesn't allow you to violate the DMCA because that's a completely *different* law to which fair use has no application.

Yes. And like fair use, the DMCA exceptions are only exceptions to the DMCA; you can't infringe copyright to get a book that allows reading aloud just because it is permitted by the dmca in the same manner that you can't invoke fair use to violate the DMCA.

How does the simple act of stripping DRM rise to the level of copyright infringement?

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

In the end, that's the only thing consumers can do that will impact Amazon... buy elsewhere. If they know more ePubs are being bought, and they want that business, eventually they'll switch to selling ePubs ...

I hadn't intended to boycott Amazon on anything other than ebooks, mainly because it seems like it would be a bigger inconvenience to me than to them.

But I think I will adopt a try-to-buy-elsewhere-first approach. Yesterday, for example, I bought my computer upgrade memory at NewEgg instead of Amazon, even though they both had what I wanted for the same price. If enough like-minded people adopt this approach, we might have an effect while minimizing inconvenience to ourselves.

I wish I had thought of this a few weeks ago. I did most if my Christmas shopping at Amazon.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Catlady

How does the simple act of stripping DRM rise to the level of copyright infringement?

It doesn't. My point is that copyright infringement is separate and independent of DRM and the DMCA.

[DiapDealer]

It doesn't. My point is that copyright infringement is separate and independent of DRM and the DMCA.

Exactly!

And based on that fact: does the DMCA's legal position on DRM-stripping cancel (or supercede) the "Fair Use" exemption provided by copyright law? Or are they two separate "bubbles" that don't intersect in any way?

The answer: it's a very grey area... and until it's tested in court (and we get some very specific rulings), no one can say with 100% certainty that stripping the DRM from an ebook you paid for is Legal or Illegal.

The DMCA says it's illegal, but does the DMCA have the legal "legs" to stand on? We'll know when it finally gets tested.

[RockdaMan]

If they added ePub, wouldn't it slow performance? I'm asking this in light of the other thread...

[KenJackson]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

If they added ePub, wouldn't it slow performance?

Do you mean, would the Amazon website perform slower?
I don't see how.

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

I'm asking this in light of the other thread...

There are thousands of other threads.

[nashira]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

If they added ePub, wouldn't it slow performance? I'm asking this in light of the other thread...

People aren't, mostly, asking for amazon to make ebooks available on Kindles, but to have an option -using adept if possible if it has to have drm (as that's what most other readers use for DRM) - to purchase .ePubs of the books they're already selling in their mobi format. So people can by from the amazon store without having to use a kindle or kindle apps and unless amazon has suddenly got less robust, I'm fairly sure their servers can handle it.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by nashira

People aren't, mostly, asking for amazon to make ebooks available on Kindles, but to have an option -using adept if possible if it has to have drm (as that's what most other readers use for DRM) - to purchase .ePubs of the books they're already selling in their mobi format. So people can by from the amazon store without having to use a kindle or kindle apps and unless amazon has suddenly got less robust, I'm fairly sure their servers can handle it.

(rolls her eyes) Emoticon's don't work at work, no idea why.

I am sure that Amazon has heard the EPub complaint loud and clear. I am sure that Amazon has its own reasons for not using EPub. I am sure that those reasons revolve around making as much money as humanly possible for Amazon. Shall I bitch that BN does not sell books using Mobi so I can buy them for my Kindle?

I know, BN uses that wonderful of all formats EPub like so many other stores do and evil, mean Amazon doesn't. But why don't they sell their books in EPub and Mobi? Surely they are losing money from all the Amazon customers who would buy a book from BN for their Kindles if only they could.

You have several choices:

1)Buy a Kindle or download a Kindle App and enjoy the Amazon bookstore. It is quite lovely. Many books, good prices, easy to shop from. Heck you can now lend books and email specific books to a Kindle user as a gift. It's swell.

2) Don't buy a Kindle or download a Kindle App. Buy books from Amazon, strip the DRM, convert the book, read it on your wonderfully flexible EPub machine that for some reason or other required that you buy a book from Amazon.

3) Don't buy a Kindle or download the Kindle App. Don't strip DRM and convert Amazon e-books. Enjoy the multitude of other choices the EPub e-readers have in order to buy the books you want. Accept that you chose a reader that would not read books from Amazon

4)Don't buy a Kindle or download the Kindle App. Don't strip DRM and convert Amazon e-books. Complain because you choose a reader that would not read books from Amazon but you really want to read books from Amazon and are pissed that you cannot.

The real problem, as I see it, is that folks are finding that they want books from Amazon because they are not available at other bookstores or are less expensive then at other bookstores. Which means that the belly aching is more of a problem with the bookstores that sell EPub then Amazon. Perhaps you should complain to BN, Sony, Kobo and the other multitude of EPub bookstores about not having the books that you want to buy and stop complaining about Amazon chosing a different format.

Or buy a Kindle or use a Kindle app and read the books from Amazon that way. Because there seem to be a lot of faces turning blue and I doubt that Amazon is going to change its policy because people are threatening to hold their breath until they do.

And, yes, I will be happy if and when Amazon adopts EPub. Not because I need it but because it will stop the whinging.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ProfCrash

And, yes, I will be happy if and when Amazon adopts EPub. Not because I need it but because it will stop the whinging.

Me too
But in all likelihood... the whining will just be transferred to a new perceived "injustice."

[Andrew H.]

Even if Amazon went to epub, I think that they would use their own DRM, as I doubt that that they will want to pay adobe a royalty for each DRM'd book they sell. In fact, I'm sure they don't want to.

[ProfCrash]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

Even if Amazon went to epub, I think that they would use their own DRM, as I doubt that that they will want to pay adobe a royalty for each DRM'd book they sell. In fact, I'm sure they don't want to.

I wouldn't be surprised if that is part of the reason they chose Mobi instead of EPub. Why should they have to pay Adobe anything?