How can we convince Amazon to sell ePub format?

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Only Sony has a touch screen that I'm aware of. I'd venture to say that most people don't care one way or the other. Personally, I can do without the touch screen.

Of eInk readers, I think you're right. The eInk Nook has the color strip at the bottom that's touch-sensitive, but I think the eInk part isn't. My point was that touch screens are something that some customers like, and it's one of those that the Kindle can't tick off.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

The Kindle is an ereader, not a media player; so it's 4GB is more than adequate.

When is more memory/storage not better? More memory can always come in handy -- especially if someone wants to load their own doc files or music on to the device. "Adequate" is a compromise people have to make to pick the Kindle. Again, it's one of those areas the Kindle doesn't win in, so if it's important to the customer, Kindle loses. No matter how much memory you put in a device, it can always be filled up. That's especially true if a) you're an avid reader, and b) you don't like deleting content. Having half the storage space of the newest Nook, and no expandability, is a big deal, and something a consumer would at least have to consider.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

The Kindle's battery lasts 3-4 weeks; the longest of the major ereaders. A removable battery isn't needed. It's makes sense in the Nook, because of its extremely poor battery life.

The problem with a sealed battery (regardless of how long it lasts on a charge) is that rechargeable batteries eventually can't be recharged anymore. That means you either have to send it back to the manufacturer or get a new one. That's a lot more complicated than just buying a new battery and replacing it yourself. (That's one of the features that almost convinced me to hold off on the Kindle 3.)

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by screwballl

The DMCA states you have NO right to change or convert whatever media you legally acquired, only to use it in the exact form which you legally acquired it. They also added in a piece that states it is illegal to bypass any "copyright protection measures" such as DRM, which is why so many companies are using various types of what they call DRM.

Fair use says you can remove the DRM for your own use. And until it's decided in a court of law, there is no way to know what trumps what. So for now it is a gray area as far as legality of removing DRM. There is a DMCA exception that says if there isn't a copy of the eBook that allows reading aloud, the DRM can be stripped legally.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by asjogren

When people ask me about eReaders, my first question is about their use of the public library. If they use the public library more than just a little, I recommend AGAINST Kindle.

All that changes IFF Amazon and Overdrive come up with a reasonable way to use the Kindle for most of the public library eBooks.

I see a lot of people who got a K3 as a gift will be unhappy with it once they find out that it won't work with eBooks from the library.

And if Overdrive was to make eBooks available that worked on a Kindle, the people who use the library now with compatible devices would be pissed.

You cannot please everyone and since the Kindle is a minority device, I think keeping things as they are for Overdrive/Libraries) is the best way to handle things. You want to partake of library eBooks, get something other then a Kindle. Plain and simple.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is a DMCA exception that says if there isn't a copy of the eBook that allows reading aloud, the DRM can be stripped legally.

So if I buy a book from Amazon that has text-to-speech disabled, this exception makes it legal to remove the DRM? (I'm not really asking for a legal opinion. I'm just asking if I'm interpreting what you said correctly.)

If such an exception exists, it will be easier for me to buy a tts-disabled Kindle e-book with a clean conscience.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

Unlike the association I mentioned above, Amazon - currently - is in great position. Most people love the site, love the prices, and love the products. So why would they tell me I cannot buy ebooks from them to use on my own purchased device? I do not own a Kindle. I do not want to own a Kindle. I want to buy books from Amazon. I have an Amazon Prime account, I shop there so much. But now my money isn't good enough for them because I haven't bought into their golden handcuffs?

And I don't want to hear any of that "go buy a kindle" crap. I want to use my local library and Kindle doesn't support that.

I guess, eventually, Amazon will start to sell epub or non-DRM'ed books (cause that is the real problem, the DRM). I hope it happens while I still want to do business with Amazon, cause I don’t like begging people to take my money.

But Amazon is not preventing you from buying and reading Kindle books. You can read them on a lot of cell phones like iPhones, Android phones, and Blackberries, you can read Kindle books on most computers and also on a lot of portable tablets. It isn't Amazon's fault your reader is not a Kindle. But it is Amazon's fault that they do not work with Library eBooks. If Amazon had allowed Mobipocket eBooks to work, then I think we would see a lot more Mobipocket eBooks in the library.

Amazon owns Mobipocket and could have enabled just Mobipocket time-limited DRM and that would have solved the library eBook issue before ePub hit the library. That would have been a huge blow to ePub and a big gain for Amazon.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Only Sony has a touch screen that I'm aware of. I'd venture to say that most people don't care one way or the other. Personally, I can do without the touch screen.

Actually, the iRiver Cover has a touch screen sort of. It's using a touch layer. So they have the same issues as the previous Sony Readers. Sony is the only one using a touch screen without a touch layer that is not Wacom underneath. So really, Sony (IMHO) has currently the best eink touch screen.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

So if I buy a book from Amazon that has text-to-speech disabled, this exception makes it legal to remove the DRM? (I'm not really asking for a legal opinion. I'm just asking if I'm interpreting what you said correctly.)

If such an exception exists, it will be easier for me to buy a tts-disabled Kindle e-book with a clean conscience.

If you buy an eBook from Amazon that has TTS disabled and there are no other formats out there that allow TTS due to the DRM, then yes, it is legal for you to strip the DRM and modify it so TTS works.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If you buy an eBook from Amazon that has TTS disabled and there are no other formats out there that allow TTS due to the DRM, then yes, it is legal for you to strip the DRM and modify it so TTS works.

Thanks. I think the "no other formats" thing might be the problem with my plan. I'm assuming that if I brought the file up in Kindle for PC and used a screen reader (which I don't have, but if I did...) the book would be read fine by the screen reading software.

(I'm not asking because I need text-to-speech. I've got a friend who's blind, and I refuse to buy any e-books from Amazon with the TTS disabled if it's not legal to strip the DRM.)

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But Amazon is not preventing you from buying and reading Kindle books. You can read them on a lot of cell phones like iPhones, Android phones, and Blackberries, you can read Kindle books on most computers and also on a lot of portable tablets. It isn't Amazon's fault your reader is not a Kindle. But it is Amazon's fault that they do not work with Library eBooks. If Amazon had allowed Mobipocket eBooks to work, then I think we would see a lot more Mobipocket eBooks in the library.

Amazon owns Mobipocket and could have enabled just Mobipocket time-limited DRM and that would have solved the library eBook issue before ePub hit the library. That would have been a huge blow to ePub and a big gain for Amazon.

They are not preventing me from buying and reading kindle books, true. They are preventing me from buy & reading ebooks on the device of my choice. Since when has it been ok to hold my money or purchased products hostage? They went from being a great bookseller to a mafia.

[DiapDealer]

They went from being a great bookseller to a mafia.

Strange... I think their policies have remained largely the same since they started selling ebooks. Perhaps it is you who have changed?

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Strange... I think their policies have remained largely the same since they started selling ebooks. Perhaps it is you who have changed?

Nope, I still like to buy books (that I can read wherever I want) from whoever will sell them to me. I guess I take that whole "freedom" thing too far, huh? Resistance is futile, I will be assimilated?

[DiapDealer]

I guess I take that whole "freedom" thing too far, huh?

Not at all. I've just never felt limited or infringed upon by any book seller. I buy what I want from whom I want and read it on what I want. I'm as free as free gets.

Resistance isn't futile... expecting corporations to "give" you freedom, however, is. It's just not in their best interest. A few may oblige you, but the rest... well... you'll have to "take" your freedom from them.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Not at all. I've just never felt limited or infringed upon by any book seller. I buy what I want from whom I want and read it on what I want. I'm as free as free gets.

Resistance isn't futile... expecting corporations to "give" you freedom, however, is. It's just not in their best interest. A few may oblige you, but the rest... well... you'll have to "take" your freedom from them.

I haven't gotten to the DRM stripping stage...yet.

I agree with not expecting corporations to "give" me freedom, which I why I've been voting with my $$ and no longer buying books from Amazon. I could buy & strip, but that is making them believe that their model is functioning. I hope that there are many more people like me who also vote with their $.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I agree with not expecting corporations to "give" me freedom, which I why I've been voting with my $$ and no longer buying books from Amazon.

In the end, that's the only thing consumers can do that will impact Amazon... buy elsewhere. If they know more ePubs are being bought, and they want that business, eventually they'll switch to selling ePubs and allowing Kindles to read them.

I try to buy elsewhere as well, and usually only buy Amazon ebooks when no other vendor has the book (which, fortunately, is happening less and less as time goes by). I'm also not averse to converting Kindle books to ePub when I get them.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by KenJackson

Thank you, tomsen, for that informative post. You sound like you have insider information. One minor point, however:

The Kindle doesn't need DRM ePub. Amazon doesn't need to sell ePub for the Kindle. The reason they need to sell ePub is to satisfy their customers who don't have and don't want a Kindle, like me.

But they've already got an option for people who don't have and don't want a Kindle. You can use the Kindle for PC (or iPod/iPhone/iPad or Android, or Mac) software. They've got that option covered. What they don't want to do is make it easier to use someone else's kiosk, because that just makes it easier to buy from the competition. Their preference is for users of other devices to have some anxiety about their choices.