Will the next booming profession be copy editor?

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

I hope so; though I think our degree of disagreement can be quantified by the amount less than $50 an hour you think copyediting is worth.

I'm not sure from where this $50 baseline has arisen. Copyeditor services in the United States range from $12/hour to $250/hour (and perhaps even higher) depending on what is being edited. For example, an experienced financial editor who copyedits SEC reports for Fortune 500 companies and an experienced medical editor who copyedits pharmaceutical inserts and FDA reports charge significantly more than the copyeditor who works on romance novels. The level of skills and knowledge required are significantly different, as are the levels of harm that can be incurred as a result of improper editing.

No one I know would sue a romance author or publisher because the copyeditor missed that the heroine had blue eyes on page 10 and now has gray eyes on page 12 or wore a size 4 on page 20 but suddenly wears a size 40 on page 31.

OTOH, an error in an SEC or FDA filing can have serious financial and other consequences for the client and for those who rely on the accuracy of the material.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

Throw me some slack, Maggie! Those figures were suggestions and open to negotiation. But anyway, if one reckons that the author works for, say, a year to produce his book, and the cover artist, say, two weeks, then the ratios are roughly 50:2 which is 4%!

For many indie authors, we're not talking about a "professional" livelihood either. How many indies do you suppose actually live off their books? Not even all main-line authors (i.e. ones with a publishing house behind them) do that.

That's the point. Writers are inspired to write because they want to express their creativity, to get their ideas out, and they're willing to do it at their own expense.

A professional editor is just that: someone who earns a living by editing. Even 100 percent of most indie authors' earnings wouldn't keep a person alive, so percentages off most indie authors' earnings would not be worthwhile.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by SlowRain

I'd imagine it'd be less than the mechanic who works out of his own garage, and less than someone working out of an office. Don't forget, people claim all kinds of expenses to reduce tax, but they're mostly expenses they'd incur anyway.

Uh-huh. And that mechanic working out of his garage, or that copyeditor working out of a home office--who do you think is paying for health insurance, for the full amount of Social Security taxes (rather than splitting with an employer), for his or her own pension plan?

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

A professional editor is just that: someone who earns a living by editing. Even 100 percent of most indie authors' earnings wouldn't keep a person alive, so percentages off most indie authors' earnings would not be worthwhile.

That's exactly right. If you hire a lawyer or a tax accountant to assist you in your business, they will expect to be paid a fixed fee - even if your business is losing money. There's nothing unusual in this.

[James_Wilde]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

That's exactly right. If you hire a lawyer or a tax accountant to assist you in your business, they will expect to be paid a fixed fee - even if your business is losing money. There's nothing unusual in this.

And that's why indie authors are not - in the main - going to hire editors. Which brings us back to the original question: editing is not going to be the next boom industry.

[bobavey]

I'm not sure if editing will become hot, but anyone who wants to publish a book should have the manuscript edited.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by rhadin

OTOH, an error in an SEC or FDA filing can have serious financial and other consequences for the client and for those who rely on the accuracy of the material.

I once worked for a big printer. It did annual reports for corporations among other things.

At one point, an error was discovered in the fine print in the financial statements for an annual report. (Client error - what they gave the printer was wrong.) The ways the rules worked, the printer couldn't just print and insert an errata sheet with a correction. The entire run of the report had to be destroyed before it was distributed, and a new run printed.

Yep, consequences indeed.
______
Dennis

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

The entire run of the report had to be destroyed before it was distributed, and a new run printed.

Yep, consequences indeed.
______
Dennis

I'm a lawyer and we also produce documents for public consumption. In addition to the 24 lawyers doing the legal work, we also have 3 legal editors (who are also lawyers) and 4-5 full time proofreaders/nonlegal editors. During our busy season (which is sometimes 6 months long), we hire 5-6 additional proofreaders.

All of this is absolutely vital to producing documents that are not only free of egregious errors, but which are also clearly written. (Staffing levels could be lower if there weren't a certain amount of time pressure).

I don't think we've ever had a mistake on a print run, but a preliminary copy of a doc once had to be rerun because of a small error in the abstract (not even in the doc itself) and the extra photocopying cost was over $3,000.

Leaving aside proofreading, it's vital to have an editor because they can tell you whether something is really coherent - because I know what I'm trying to say, I will sometimes assume that what I've written says this...but that's often not the case. And this is as important in my work as it is in fiction writing.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

And that's why indie authors are not - in the main - going to hire editors. Which brings us back to the original question: editing is not going to be the next boom industry.

And that's why books from indie authors are less likely to sell.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

I'm a lawyer and we also produce documents for public consumption. In addition to the 24 lawyers doing the legal work, we also have 3 legal editors (who are also lawyers) and 4-5 full time proofreaders/nonlegal editors. During our busy season (which is sometimes 6 months long), we hire 5-6 additional proofreaders.

And I assume your proofreaders are specialists, for the same reason medical proofreaders are. You need a level of knowledge of the terminology to be able to find errors.

Leaving aside proofreading, it's vital to have an editor because they can tell you whether something is really coherent - because I know what I'm trying to say, I will sometimes assume that what I've written says this...but that's often not the case. And this is as important in my work as it is in fiction writing.

Indeed. Reading is a dialog. What the reader gets will depend on what they bring to the work, and may not be anything like what you meant. An editor can't guarantee your meaning will be communicated, but can make it more likely, simply by making sure you have thought through what you are trying to say, and have in fact said what you mean.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by bobavey

I'm not sure if editing will become hot, but anyone who wants to publish a book should have the manuscript edited.

And entirely too few will want to pay for it.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

So come up with a new business model, Harry.

You're the aspiring writer. You propose one. Harry is the consumer, unhappy with the poor quality indie/self-published work, and refusing to buy in consequence. How do you propose to address his complaints?

In another thread not a hundred miles from here I seem to remember prices ranging from $500-3000 for editing. At 80% of $2.99 a book, that's 200 to 1200 books sold before one gets around to paying the cover artist - another 200 books. That means you have to sell 400-1600 books before you start making money. I know we do it for love and not for money, but that's a heavy bite into the cake.

You want the services of skilled craftspeople. You have to expect to pay for them, at a rate commensurate with the required skill. You used to be an accountant, and then a computer guy. You expected a certain level of payment for your professional skill, and would likely have been unhappy at requests that you work cheaper. So it is for editors, copy editors, and proofreaders.

You can choose to do without such services to save money and issue your book as-is, but you risk being rejected in the market for work that doesn't meet expected standards of quality.
______
Dennis

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

I once had a vision of a site which combined all these talents, where the cover artists and sound book readers got, say, five per cent, translators maybe twenty or thirty, and so on.

IMHO, the world of writing, editing, and publishing books are changing - and very rapidly. I believe that every writer needs a copyeditor for everything. This includes bloggers (because just because you can write it doesn't mean I can read it) and so, in my belief, this would make James Wilde's business idea very possible. If authors are self publishing with places like Amazon, why not use this business model as well? There are several companies for computer tech (one of which I have used) which have a similar model. The customer pays for a specific service and the rate is smaller than normal.

I know several people who are very good copyeditors who have never wanted to do it as a profession but would gladly use their talents in a part time position that may allow them to make additional money or even possibly stay home.

I can see that this would be a great business model and I can think of several places where James can begin to farm talent.

At the end of the day, the copyeditor can decide to either stay employed by the business (or take her/his newly gained experience elsewhere) and the author will have the benefit of a copyeditor (and now Harry can read their books ) win-win

[Marc Johnson]

When my book comes out I expect to make money. I consider myself to be starting a business and while I understand me not making money for the first year, maybe two, if I don't make money and start to turn a profit, why would I start a failing business in the first place? I wish more indie authors would treat it as a business. Nothing wrong with trying to make money if you get what's necessary like editing.

I go into a far more detailing posting on my site but for developmental editing the ranges I found were $35-50/hour and the average was $40-45. Talking to my editor I'm currently using, the copyedit is going to be far cheaper but I think that has more to do with time. For the first developmental edit, she worked 50 hours on my manuscript.

The numbers and ranges for editing is really easy to get. All you have to do is email editors, which if you're looking for one you should do, to get pricing and a sample.

Editors are great and necessary. I learned a lot, all the ones I queried were nice and helpful, and the one I'm currently working with is great. I won't read a book that's not edited by a professional.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by Marc Johnson

Editors are great and necessary. I learned a lot, all the ones I queried were nice and helpful, and the one I'm currently working with is great. I won't read a book that's not edited by a professional.

It's funny though, I literally just bought a book of short stories (on it's way in the mail) whose sole claim to fame really is that they actually haven't been edited.

Or rather, were edited once, but now have been painstakingly restored to the author's original words (by looking at original typed drafts). And every typo correction is noted in the back in an appendix.

Indeed, I almost have a whole library (well, bookshelf) of such volumes - H.P. Lovecraft, Robert Howard, and Clark Ashton Smith.

I guess my point is, it should depend on the author. Some, HPL at least, carefully crafted their stuff and any editor's interference just makes it worse.

Are most the authors out there like HPL? Hell no. But you never know...and professional editing is no guarantee.

The famous plothole in The Big Sleep (which was caused by Chandler splicing together three separate stories) was never caught until it was made into a movie.

A favorite short story of mine (Omnilingual by H. Beam Piper) has an error that made it by the original magazine editor and the editor of the short story collection I have in paperback, but was caught by the PG proofing team. And I've personally noticed names of minor characters being swapped in a couple of best selling novels.

And despite that, all are well worth reading.