Is your ebook reader reading up on you?

[FF2]

CwatkinsNash

Let us know what you discover. I guess I should try finding that log file. I've only installed the hack so I could alter the screensavers. While my taste in books/periodicals is not odd or wild, it is MY taste and just because I purchased a kindle (subject to whatever lingo they posted), does not mean I really need them knowing everything.

I probably pass that Amazon server each day on my commute. Maybe I should drop in one day and visit my files!

[SaraD]

Originally Posted by Fastolfe

What we do in life is tracked enough as it is, I'd rather my ebook reader doesn't help marketers gather up more data on me. Thus, I chose my Sony Reader partly because it can't phone home by design. Not saying the Kindle or other WiFi-enabled ebook readers necessarily do, but with the Sony Reader, I'm certain it doesn't. I paid more for it because, to me, not having a WiFi-enabled reader was an added feature.

Exactly. I considered a Jinke made device as well as the Sony that I purchased and both offered what I considered to be the feature of no wifi or 3G connectivity. Another plus for me the device weighs a tiny bit less.

[tubemonkey]

Knowing what you read has to be the most important bit of data a company can gather on customers; and this is available to them no matter what device you use to read it on. Any other device specific data they gather is minor compared to this.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

So.

Your cell phone tracks every tower you contact. Your GPS in your cell phone tracks your movements. Facebook Places and Foursquare know where you are.

Your browser plants cookies that it uses to track your activity. Your email is as secure as a postcard. Your credit card company knows every CC purchase, your bank knows your debit transactions, checks, and ATM locations. Your phone company keeps records of every call you make and receive.

They aren't getting all that much more data on you with ebooks than they did when you bought books online, or used a rewards card. Everyone is already mining the daylights out of that data, and have for years.

At this point, if you really don't want anyone to track your activities, I recommend you throw out your computer, lose your cell phone, cancel your land line, ditch your ATM card, chop up your credit cards, and deal only in cash.

Have you been reading The Broken Window by Jeffery Deaver lately?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Ken Maltby

Besides making me even more happy with my Ectaco Jetbook purchase, and the fact that
I read my ebooks off an SD card, it makes me wonder about DRM with a "phone home"
component. What if your "illegal to remove" DMA were routinely contacting, say.. the
Evil Adobe Empire's computers? Just a thought.

Luck;
Ken

Windows has been doing that since XP, but people have found ways around it. BTW, one of the things that the Kindle reports to Amazon is whether the book you are reading has DRM or not.

[Vandy]

Originally Posted by wvcherrybomb

This really doesn't bother me at all.

What she said.

In other words, "So What?"

Regards,

Vandy

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by FF2

Let us know what you discover. I guess I should try finding that log file.

Nothing very interesting. There are four "hidden" files >1MB each that seem to contain the system files for the Kindle but could contain usage data. That's in the documents folder.

There are a few things in the "hidden" system folder: In the Index subfolder, there's a 1kb index log, which is a short line of gibberish, but it possibly contains a marker that tells the Kindle the index status. There's an index db file I haven't opened yet and it's about 14MB. I think I still have a database viewer on my other laptop that will read it so I'll look at that later. There are also index files for each book on the Kindle, varying in size depending on the book.

Also in that system folder is the json file that holds the collection information. For each entry it contains the collection names, and a hash (a long alpha-numeric ID) for each book. From what I can tell, if a book is from Amazon and has intact DRM and an intact ASIN number, it uses that ASIN; otherwise one is created from the book's metadata. The file also contains last access information for each collection for sorting purposes. There is another file for Audible activation.This folder also contains a subfolder with the dictionary and the related settings file in it.

In the Documents folder there is a file with each book that has (I assume) last page opened and access time information.

The only other data I can find stored on here are the files for active content that holds game settings and previously played data.

We already know that Amazon is storing your last page access info - it's right in the ToS and it's also used for device syncing. They don't really need page-by-page unless they want to see who's skimming. It's pretty easy to use the access information to deduce that "She sat down and read it in two-hour increments over a period of two days" or "She stopped at page 26 a week ago and hasn't opened it since".

The thing that I can't find that really has me curious is the browser information. I guess I'll have to log onto a few sites, then compare files before and after deleting cookies. It's possible that this info is stored in the >1MB files I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

I'm not too worried, really. If Amazon has this info in a form useful beyond syncing with Whispernet, they will find a way to make money from it. If they start offering additional data to publishers and self-publishers, it will be at a premium and we will hear about it.

As for phoning home, mine connected once not too long after I stopped reading last night and once to download the Amazon Daily early this morning but I haven't seen any other activity. I was mistaken yesterday about the additional IPs - one of the ones I was seeing was for my VOIP connection.

[Piper_]

CWatkinsNash, you might find some useful information about what data is being sent to Amazon, or how to find it, in this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...t=51371&page=2

I don't know how applicable it is, or, more important, under what settings the transmissions are sent.

Same goes for the article's warnings...

I mean, for the K3 at least, you can select to have Amazon keep track your notes and marks, and/or track your last page read for the purpose of synchronizing.

Since those are optional, the only thing that would be questionable to me is if they were still being tracked when I had those options turned off. I asked about it in that thread, but

Longitude and latitude info are part of running 3G, although I'm not sure why that location data is regularly logged and sent to Amazon by default instead of only as needed for troubleshooting connection issues.

I guess next time I go rob a bank, I'll leave my Kindle at home.

[Piper_]

A couple other random musings:

- Re control of wireless connections:

On the Amazon Customer forum, when the K3 updates were being sent, some people said their wireless was set to off on the Kindle, but was then turned on and off remotely by Amazon to push the update.

Others noted that Amazon usually tells people to leave it on when they need an update, and why would they ask that if they didn't have to.

I have no clue, but if someone really cares, they should know it is possible for the K3 to be coded to phone home by itself.

- Re logs in the system folder:

In addition to the ones you note, I also saw one in mine that recorded my deletions.

Anyway, I'm curious about what is sent when, and why, but as long as they aren't sending data I've selected the option not to send to them, I'm not that bugged about it.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Knowing what you read has to be the most important bit of data a company can gather on customers; and this is available to them no matter what device you use to read it on. Any other device specific data they gather is minor compared to this.

I think this is right. Compared to the fact that I bought the book, how fast I read it, or if I read it, is of much less importance to me from a privacy perspective.

Although if I were reading Playboy on a NookColor, I suppose I wouldn't want them to know that I spent 5 minutes looking at a picture of Miss March, but 10 minutes looking at a picture of Miss May. Not even if it enabled them to tailor their recommendations better.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by Piper_

CWatkinsNash, you might find some useful information about what data is being sent to Amazon, or how to find it, in this thread: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...t=51371&page=2

Thanks for the link. I had done a search but I wasn't searching for the right terms to get that one. I see that no one ever got back to the question of the file system differences on the K3, and there's obviously a difference since the files they are talking about aren't there.

Longitude and latitude info are part of running 3G, although I'm not sure why that location data is regularly logged and sent to Amazon by default instead of only as needed for troubleshooting connection issues.

I guess a justification that could be used for the implementation of precise geolocation would be so that Amazon can comply with geo-restrictions on sales. If they are not authorized by contract to sell a certain book outside of the US, or in Kerzibeckistanguay, they could technically use it to ensure that a "borrowed" US account isn't being used to purchase books on a Kindle that never leaves Kerzibeckistanguay. Some people use proxies to illicitly purchased geo-restricted books via computer, but that won't work with a Kindle if the location is coming from the Kindle itself rather than the location of the internet connection.

To follow up on my "tracking" of my Kindle, I couldn't get the logging of the router to work right in a way that was convenient (ie, set it and forget it) so I pretty much let it go. I've got the wireless turned off right now because I'm not using it, and if Amazon is going to sneak in and turn on a connection, it would probably be 3G so I wouldn't see it anyway.

I'm not overly concerned about my content, but that's only because I'm pretty outspoken when it comes to things like that. (You should see the books I have on display in my living room.) However, I know I'm probably in the minority there, and understandably so.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

So.

Your cell phone tracks every tower you contact. Your GPS in your cell phone tracks your movements. Facebook Places and Foursquare know where you are.

Your browser plants cookies that it uses to track your activity. Your email is as secure as a postcard. Your credit card company knows every CC purchase, your bank knows your debit transactions, checks, and ATM locations. Your phone company keeps records of every call you make and receive.

They aren't getting all that much more data on you with ebooks than they did when you bought books online, or used a rewards card. Everyone is already mining the daylights out of that data, and have for years.

At this point, if you really don't want anyone to track your activities, I recommend you throw out your computer, lose your cell phone, cancel your land line, ditch your ATM card, chop up your credit cards, and deal only in cash.

Tip of my hat to you.

Thing is, won't people still need their Costco memberships to buy their pallets of tinfoil? Costco probably tracks their purchases, too.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Maggie Leung

Tip of my hat to you.

Thing is, won't people still need their Costco memberships to buy their pallets of tinfoil? Costco probably tracks their purchases, too.

Maybe people aren't as worried that the whole world might find out what groceries they buy as they are that they will find out that they like to read insect porn or self help books about coping with cancer in case it has an affect on their employment or insurance prospects. Some people are funny that way.

It's unlikely that Amazon's data files are any more secure than those of the US or UK governments, so it's entirely possible that this information ends up on public display one day. Especially now that Amazon has taken a stand against Wikileaks.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Maybe people aren't as worried that the whole world might find out what groceries they buy as they are that they will find out that they like to read insect porn or self help books about coping with cancer in case it has an affect on their employment or insurance prospects. Some people are funny that way.

It's unlikely that Amazon's data files are any more secure than those of the US or UK governments, so it's entirely possible that this information ends up on public display one day. Especially now that Amazon has taken a stand against Wikileaks.

If my post was unclear: I was joking.

If you are concerned to such a degree, though, you might consider Kali Yuga's suggestions. You might also want to reconsider which books you borrow from the library, which videos you rent, etc.

[elcreative]

Perhaps you could get your tinfoil by dumpster diving, being very careful to avoid the CCTV...