A former Kindle user's manifesto... (or something like that..) - Page 2

SpiderMatt · 12-09-2010, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enkov

Just because 'stripping down the DRM' is barely illegal. Buying a book with a DRM you are signing a contract. Then you violate this contract. DRM is a way to keep sure you are the only owner of the item you have purchased (ebook, music or movie). But currently it is made by wrong way. I think DRM must be linked to somewhat like an your personal ID, not the ID of the only one device from one manufacturer and you must have a way to assign that ID to every device you own.

I am not a laywer. I am also bored of these DRM issues. I hate the DRM too!

Under the contract theory, is it OK for a friend who is permitted to use your computer to strip the DRM and copy your ebooks? That person never entered into a contract.

enkov · 12-09-2010, 05:08 AM

It is not OK. In the contract it is your duty to keep things safe. They are yours. If somebody theft them you are still under this contract. It is still remain your engagement to keep them safe.

Your theory will legalise all burglars and thieves, did you mean this?

charonme · 12-09-2010, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enkov

Buying a book with a DRM you are signing a contract.

if that was true, it could be equally possible to say that by selling me a book with DRM the store si "signing" a contract with me that they allow me to strip the DRM (or do anything else for that matter including selling their soul to me

)

enkov · 12-09-2010, 05:46 AM

I do not like any DRM! But this is the situation... You are not allowed to strip the DRM but you of course can do this (if technology exists). Same for burglars. Bump keys, pick locks - technology exist.

charonme · 12-09-2010, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enkov

Same for burglars

while legally this may be true in some countries, ethically it is not the same situation.

TenaciousBadger · 12-09-2010, 08:46 AM

i've never felt less "locked in".
i'm thinking it's an issue for readers who aren't handy with conversions. and like kindlekitten says, there are online stores that don't support one reader so they cater for more formats.
the thing is: if a book is restricted on amazon, chances are i won't be able to get it on sony, mobipocket, B&N, etc, either.
and in my experience, amazon tends to serve buyers from a wider range of countries than the other stores mentioned before.

but hey to each their own!

abookreader · 12-09-2010, 09:18 AM

I'm not locked in at all. My books are cataloged and stored on my computer system and back-up drives in a manner that will make them easily readable on whatever device I own 5years, 10years, 15 years or however longer from now. And if I ever do find that my retailer is selling a product that I can't remove the lock, then I'll simply move onto another product. That's the #1 reason I don't buy from the iBookstore. I have no inherent hate for Apple, I just can't unlock their books so I don't buy them.

I'm not sure exactly why you think a nook gives you greater freedom than a Kindle because compatibility isn't found in your device - but in your books.

If you buy a nook device and then a book from Barnes and Noble, you have DRM. DRM locked you to a device/account.

If you buy a nook and then a book from .. say Kobo, you have DRM. DRM likes you to a device/account.

If you buy a Sony reader and .....

We could go on and on like that for every eReader, and retailer, and format. As long as you are buying DRM, you are buying a book that has a lock on it.

Choose to undo the lock or not. That's your decision. I'm honestly not intellectual enough to delve into manifestos and heavy philosophical discussions concerning a $7 story. I just buy, convert, read and enjoy. But this isn't a device issue. It's a DRM issue.

jocampo · 12-09-2010, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

why these people don't just learn to strip off the DRM. Doesn't that make more sense than buying another device?

No, because this is illegal in the United States

... and not saying here it's not possible or doable, but just being illegal is a "no no" for some John Doe users besides requires some computer skills that usual grandma or housewife, will find difficult to follow!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiderMatt

I think the Kindle is better than the Nook hardware and I think Amazon has the best ebook store. I will not leave the Kindle platform until I see something I like more, but Amazon is doing a pretty damn good job at keeping consumers happy.

You are 100% right!

ReliQ05 · 12-09-2010, 09:30 AM

I think it's tragic with the way things have gone with digital files, (games, books, movies, etc.) that even after we pay money to the company, the "contract" we have with them is more like a lease on said material, then a sale. To me that is more unethical than stripping the DRM off a file so I can use it however I want, considering I payed my $$.

abookreader · 12-09-2010, 09:32 AM

Quote:

r some John Doe users besides requires some computer skills that usual grandma or housewife, will find difficult to follow!

Way to promote stereotypes!

And for what it is worth, I could give you a list probably over 100 names of Grandmas and Housewives that have installed Calibre/Plug-ins and operate just fine.

desertgrandma · 12-09-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

Way to promote stereotypes!

And for what it is worth, I could give you a list probably over 100 names of Grandmas and Housewives that have installed Calibre/Plug-ins and operate just fine.

me!! me!! me!!! Way before the easy plugin that is now current........back when you had to use the 'command line'!!

We're old, not stupid!!

TheKindleWorm · 12-09-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abookreader

Way to promote stereotypes!

And for what it is worth, I could give you a list probably over 100 names of Grandmas and Housewives that have installed Calibre/Plug-ins and operate just fine.

He he, exactly abookreader!

I'm a housewife - I'm pretty dumb when it comes to operating a washing machine or wielding an iron (managed to shrink the curtains in the wash and burnt hubby's best shirt so not the most competent housewife) but I know my gadgets

icybergie · 12-09-2010, 10:06 AM

Wait.

Didn't the existence of Calibre solve everything?

snipenekkid · 12-09-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

me!! me!! me!!! Way before the easy plugin that is now current........back when you had to use the 'command line'!!

We're old, not stupid!!

no we invented the command line!!

And now in our 50mumble+ years we earned the luxury of a plug-in.

desertgrandma · 12-09-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snipenekkid

no we invented the command line!!

And now in our 50mumble+ years we earned the luxury of a plug-in.

Young whippersnapper!

Quote:

Originally Posted by icybergie

Wait.

Didn't the existence of Calibre solve everything?

No. It solved many things, but until recently you still had to learn some python, and at first, you had to use the command line to convert.

Basically, you needed a strong desire to be able to read any format on your e-book reader, whichever brand it may be.

That desire gave you the confidence to learn new things, regardless of age.

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12-09-2010, 05:08 AM	#17
enkov Advanced Dunno Posts: 80 Karma: 27094 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria Device: Kindle Fire HDX 7 + Paperwhite 2013	It is not OK. In the contract it is your duty to keep things safe. They are yours. If somebody theft them you are still under this contract. It is still remain your engagement to keep them safe. Your theory will legalise all burglars and thieves, did you mean this?

12-09-2010, 05:46 AM	#19
enkov Advanced Dunno Posts: 80 Karma: 27094 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Plovdiv, Bulgaria Device: Kindle Fire HDX 7 + Paperwhite 2013	I do not like any DRM! But this is the situation... You are not allowed to strip the DRM but you of course can do this (if technology exists). Same for burglars. Bump keys, pick locks - technology exist.

12-09-2010, 08:46 AM	#21
TenaciousBadger Mrawr? Posts: 1,109 Karma: 15039064 Join Date: Aug 2010 Device: kindle 3 wifi	i've never felt less "locked in". i'm thinking it's an issue for readers who aren't handy with conversions. and like kindlekitten says, there are online stores that don't support one reader so they cater for more formats. the thing is: if a book is restricted on amazon, chances are i won't be able to get it on sony, mobipocket, B&N, etc, either. and in my experience, amazon tends to serve buyers from a wider range of countries than the other stores mentioned before. but hey to each their own!

12-09-2010, 09:18 AM	#22
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	I'm not locked in at all. My books are cataloged and stored on my computer system and back-up drives in a manner that will make them easily readable on whatever device I own 5years, 10years, 15 years or however longer from now. And if I ever do find that my retailer is selling a product that I can't remove the lock, then I'll simply move onto another product. That's the #1 reason I don't buy from the iBookstore. I have no inherent hate for Apple, I just can't unlock their books so I don't buy them. I'm not sure exactly why you think a nook gives you greater freedom than a Kindle because compatibility isn't found in your device - but in your books. If you buy a nook device and then a book from Barnes and Noble, you have DRM. DRM locked you to a device/account. If you buy a nook and then a book from .. say Kobo, you have DRM. DRM likes you to a device/account. If you buy a Sony reader and ..... We could go on and on like that for every eReader, and retailer, and format. As long as you are buying DRM, you are buying a book that has a lock on it. Choose to undo the lock or not. That's your decision. I'm honestly not intellectual enough to delve into manifestos and heavy philosophical discussions concerning a $7 story. I just buy, convert, read and enjoy. But this isn't a device issue. It's a DRM issue.

12-09-2010, 09:30 AM	#24
ReliQ05 Member Posts: 21 Karma: 52 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: nook Wifi, Sony Reader Pocket Edition	I think it's tragic with the way things have gone with digital files, (games, books, movies, etc.) that even after we pay money to the company, the "contract" we have with them is more like a lease on said material, then a sale. To me that is more unethical than stripping the DRM off a file so I can use it however I want, considering I payed my $$.

12-09-2010, 10:06 AM	#28
icybergie Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle, iPad	Wait. Didn't the existence of Calibre solve everything?