Seriously thoughtful Personal Interactions in Internet

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Exer

There seems to be a lot of stigma about "virtual" worlds, and online relationships, but I'll just say that me and my lady met online. Our friendship grew online, and -- years later -- when we realized it had turned into love, that blossomed online as well. We were well and truly in love before we ever stood face to face, and everything that we experienced with each other online was just as emotionally real and heartfelt as what we've felt since then, being physically together.

Some couples read books together. Some go hiking, or biking together. Some couples work in the same career field, or enjoy traveling around the world together. Me and my lady just happen to enjoy virtual exploration as an addition to our day to day life together.

I don't think some people give credit to the possibilities that the virtual realm can bring to the real world. Just because you can't grasp it in your hand doesn't make it any less real. When MobileRead recently lost a well-loved member to illness, did their friends here just shrug and say, "Oh well, I only knew 'em online"? I doubt it.

The love, loss, joy and heartbreak are -- sometimes painfully -- real. Anyone who has felt them, here in these virtual spaces, can attest to it.

I'm happy you two are together and happy. I can't help but feel, however, that you are the exceptions, not the rule.

As for our 'loss', I still feel a pain whenever I see her avatar in an old post, or see one of her books uploaded.

Originally Posted by Ea

Great advice
.
.
.
for a 10 year old

Except of course if your definition of 'personal interactions' is cybersex with strangers...

EEwwww. Nasty.

No, Ea, that wasn't what I was referring to.

I understood Beppe's post to seriously consider establishing a long term relationship with someone met online.

The more time spent online, the less time spent in the real world, dealing with, and taking care of the real problems in our lives.

I dearly love most all the people I interact here with, but have found myself, in the past, needing to "unplug" and walk away in order to get my priorities in order.

Its just way too easy to spend the day 'refreshing' the screen instead of taking care of my real life.

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by dsvick

In the interest of full disclosure ...

None of the avatars I've used on MR, and certainly not the current one, are really me. The current one is there as eye candy for all those that are interested, and as a thank you for the rest of the eye candy out there (KK, badgood, etc.) .

You were including Bill, right?

How could anyone resist that wandering right eye, the suggestive pose, the sheer sexuality of Bill the Cat?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You were including Bill, right?

How could anyone resist that wandering right eye, the suggestive pose, the sheer sexuality of Bill the Cat?

I can't believe you didn't recycle the Christmas Grandma *sniff*

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I can't believe you didn't recycle the Christmas Grandma *sniff*

Well, I tried, but it was a generic santa.......not "Bill"!

Anyone out there have my old Bill the Cat Santa version?

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Well, I tried, but it was a generic santa.......not "Bill"!

Anyone out there have my old Bill the Cat Santa version?

do you remember who did it for you last year?

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You were including Bill, right?

How could anyone resist that wandering right eye, the suggestive pose, the sheer sexuality of Bill the Cat?

But of course. I just didn't mention him in the hopes that no one else would pay any attention to him and I could have you, errrr him all to myself. See, now I'm getting the avatars and the real people all mixed up

[beppe]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I didn't read your whole post,

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

the time you spend online ... should be spent with your partner

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

You were including Bill, right?

How could anyone resist that wandering right eye, the suggestive pose, the sheer sexuality of Bill the Cat?

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I can't believe you didn't recycle the Christmas Grandma *sniff*

Ah_hum. I will be obliged to you, most gracious ladies, obviously not interested in this thread (undoubtedly justly so), if you kindly choose to move your businesses somewhere else. I put the flag Seriousness at the start. I am confident that it would not elude the grasp of your wisdom the opportunity to try to respect, if not me, whom *is* interested in this discussion.

[desertgrandma]

I apologize, Beppe.

Back to business.

Tho my advice is not asked for, I will give it anyway.

Stay away from forming personal relationships online.

As much fun as they may be, they aren't 'real'.

You posted in another thread, your wifes reluctance to leave the kids with a sitter and play tennis with you, and your displeasure with that.

Heres the thing. In your lifetime, there is time to have fun, and time to be a parent and family. Its a stressful, daily grind, and not always fun.

More divorces are caused by people getting tired of the 'same ole same ole' routing, and not realizing that their chief responsibility at the moment lies at home, raising kids with stable home lives, decent moral values, able to go into the world with half a chance to do the same.

Soon enough, the kids will be grown, and parents will become 'couples' again.

Then the fun can really begin.......If you can survive that long.

Many times, its just a question of whats more important......instant gratification now, or putting it off a little.

[beppe]

Thank you Elfwreck. Your post really warms my heart because it answers to many of the questions that I have for this theme, and it gives many occasions for learning and for furthering my understanding.

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

People who develop serious, long-term relationships online consider them "real." They call the other kind "physical." (Or "meatspace," although that's a bit flippant.)

Exactly, i thought that there might be names. I do like the ones you mention, real for what I called virtual and physical/meatspace for what i called real. Iìll use those from now on. Thanks

Nope. Plenty of interest-showing online happens through private messages, emails, and isolated chat sessions. Initial meetings online are almost all public, but the get-to-know-each-other stage can have as much privacy as the people wish.

Sure, of course. Nevertheless those first important steps, those that one remembers, those are out in the open. No big deal. I have a long time meatspace friend (since 40 years at least), we became friend in a funny way that we both remember very fondly.

This, yes. Aside from emoticons & smileys, and acronyms like LOL and OMGWTFBBQ, there are in-jokes and methods of phrasing that show the textual equivalent of tone of voice, posture, and degree of intimacy being claimed.

This is very good to know. A sort of technique, a meta-lenguage. I imagine that this is not coded but rather left to each creativity and fantasy. It is very interesting, what you said. It tickles my never sleeping imagination. Now I need a potential Internet partner to experiment.

This sometimes works, and sometimes causes a great deal of strife. Many people seem to forget there are other humans behind those avatars, and feel comfortable lashing out or being hateful in ways they'd never do in a physical meeting.

Ok. I am quite aware, I also agree on the reasons you put this up. thank you

The internet, in removing the requirement for immediate response and overt emotional display, is a lot more comfortable for many introverts. I'm an extreme introvert; I'm not sure I've ever willingly introduced myself to a stranger in "real life." Online, I'm comfortable joining new forums on a whim, making intro posts, and jumping into random conversations.

This is certainly a central point in the whole topic. I am quite extrovert, so I do not have inbuilt decoders for introverts ways, but being a strong extrovert I have a natural inclinations toward them, I mean the ways, not the introverts as such. With them I have the impression that there is always something to learn for me. It is very interesting.

It can be; it functions differently in internet relationships, because it's *entirely invisible* to others. In physical life, people who spend a lot of time being private together are noticed; others can recognize that they have some kind of connection. Privacy online makes it possible to have deep relationships that other people know nothing about.

Exactly what I thought. And very well phrased. Somehow i am inclined to put value in these aspects of Internet contact. Even if it is not very clear to me why it should.

Comparable in what way?
Meaningful? Sure. If I listed my 10 closest friends at the moment, two of them are people I've never physically met.
Romantic? Sometimes. (Not my thing. Tried it; doesn't work right for me.)
Spiritual? I've had terrific luck with spiritual connections online.

You opened up the question quite nicely.
I choose to be not too specific on the original question just to have answers like yours. I hope more poster will add to this particular theme. Again, thank you so much.

I have a lot more social connections on the internet than I do in meatspace.

It shows and it is a great fortune for me that you saw the thread.

Define "spilling into"--the two close friends I mentioned, I've had hours-long phonecalls with.

I do have other friends that I care for deeply, that I've never spoken to, nor am likely to; there's language barriers. (I have no idea how good their spoken English is, and my spoken Hebrew is nonexistent.)

What I had in mind, in a confuse way - I admit - was the possibility for a solid strong relation to develop in Internet and stay confined there, confined to phone calls, mails, chats, letters, Skype, sms, I all count them as external to meatspace. That what I meant.

Ciao. hope to see you soon.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I apologize, Beppe.

Back to business.

Tho my advice is not asked for, I will give it anyway.

Stay away from forming personal relationships online.

As much fun as they may be, they aren't 'real'.

That's an incredibly insulting thing to say to the people who have deeply meaningful relationships with limited or no face-to-face time.

Do you also claim that marriages where one spouse has been hospitalized aren't "real" anymore? Or that military personnel posted overseas shouldn't have personal relationships because they can't possibly be "real?"

Heres the thing. In your lifetime, there is time to have fun, and time to be a parent and family. Its a stressful, daily grind, and not always fun.

1) Not everyone intends to get married and raise children.

2) What has an obligation to care for family got to do with what kind of friendships a person has?

Many times, its just a question of whats more important..... instant gratification now, or putting it off a little.

You seem to be saying that online relationships are all about "fun," that there's no other point to them. That they don't provide emotional support, or work towards shared goals, or help each other out in times of need. That they are entirely individual, not connected to a person's family life. (My husband knows where I hang out online. I know where he hangs out. We have some mutual online friends, and some where we don't share any interests in common.)

I've met dozens of people whom I initially met online. None of them have been shockingly different from how they came across online. Very few have even been surprising; they came across online the same way they are in person--because most people are honest, most of the time. There are some scams and creeps out there, but they're very much in the minority.

[beppe]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I apologize, Beppe.

Back to business.

I thank you for taking me on a personal angle in this discussion. It is nevertheless an important and interesting subject. It is as I stated several times since I joined MR, the main reason why I am here. To study what kind of relations one can build on Internet. This place is almost the ideal observing station. Level of participants, degree of introversion, literary interests, general intellectual inclination. Than, what I do of my time and how I split my interests, it is sort of marginal to this discussion. Just to put some peace in your heart, I can tell you that I am a very straight person, except in love and gambling.
PS and as a good Italian I put family in front of everything else, and as good Italian I am a declared enemy of mothers. But that *is* an other story. (that includes the mothers of my daughters and of my grand children).

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

That's an incredibly insulting thing to say to the people who have deeply meaningful relationships with limited or no face-to-face time.

Do you also claim that marriages where one spouse has been hospitalized aren't "real" anymore? Or that military personnel posted overseas shouldn't have personal relationships because they can't possibly be "real?"

I think we're talking at cross purposes here. I'm speaking about married people ignoring spouses to cultivate another relationship online.

1) Not everyone intends to get married and raise children. That has nothing to do with what I said.

2) What has an obligation to care for family got to do with what kind of friendships a person has? A lot.....IF that friendship takes away from family.

You seem to be saying that online relationships are all about "fun," that there's no other point to them. That they don't provide emotional support, or work towards shared goals, or help each other out in times of need. That they are entirely individual, not connected to a person's family life. (My husband knows where I hang out online. I know where he hangs out. We have some mutual online friends, and some where we don't share any interests in common.)

Again, I was addressing a completely different issue.

If you can't follow that, ignore it.

[phenomshel]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

I'm happy you two are together and happy. I can't help but feel, however, that you are the exceptions, not the rule.

I guess Chris and I are exceptions too. We'll be celebrating our fifth marriage anniversary next month, btw . Yes, we met and communicated online for nearly two years before ever meeting each other in person. He bought me a plane ticket, I flew into Chicago, and ....the rest is history .

[desertgrandma]

Originally Posted by phenomshel

I guess Chris and I are exceptions too. We'll be celebrating our fifth marriage anniversary next month, btw . Yes, we met and communicated online for nearly two years before ever meeting each other in person. He bought me a plane ticket, I flew into Chicago, and ....the rest is history .

And thats a goood thing!

[badgoodDeb]

Yeah for Chris and Shel!

I, on the other hand, met someone online, met up and married him ..... and just a few days ago finished divorcing him. And I don't even believe in divorce! He changed after we married.