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#211 | |
Wizard
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I'm sure that all the people that are pro giving donations to the authors assume that the story was written by the author, otherwise they would also want to pay the editors. |
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#212 | |
eReader
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One issue many writers have with a story is that they will inadvertently leave some minor (but important) detail out of the manuscript. When they read the story their mind automatically fills things in, so they don't see the gap. Editors can highlight these issues and let the author know where they left something out or where they could perhaps say something better. A good editor is like a really good beta reader, who can not only tell you where they had issues, but also explain what they consider the reason behind the issue and make suggestions of how to fix it. It's impossible to improve anything without feedback, and that's just one of the things editors provide. As for copy editing and initial proofs: There are some things which will always need a second set of eyes. The author is usually just too close to the manuscript to catch certain errors. Unedited books are not something anyone wants to look forward to. |
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#213 | ||
Wizard
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#214 | |
Wizard
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#215 | |
New York Editor
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I happen to think those costs and the price required to make money selling ebooks are higher than people want to believe. If I'm correct in my assumptions, you won't see ebooks from major trade publishers priced at the rate you might like because they can't publish ebooks at those prices and make money. This is not publisher greed - it's survival. They want to stay in business, and sell you more books tomorrow. There's an amount they have to make to do that. ______ Dennis |
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#216 | |
eReader
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The author won't get better if they can't see their mistakes - it's like learning anything - you can't get better until you learn how to recognize mistakes, and at least at first someone's going to have to point them out to you. There are reasons why many writers have credited editors as being invaluable in their professional development. |
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#217 | |
Wizard
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And my point is that while they are learning, they shouldn't expect to get that much money out of it. |
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#218 | |
New York Editor
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But you reach a point of "not seeing the forest for the trees". Every working writer I know also admits that a good editor can help them turn a good book into a great one, and considers having a good editor to be a key part of any success they might have achieved as writer. A late friend who was an editor once said that a variant of the 80/20 rule rule applied, and might be called 80/10/10. 80% of the manuscripts that came in over the transom were automatic rejects, with the only question whether they got a form rejection slip or something that went into a little more detail about why it got bounced. 10% of the manuscripts were an automatic buy, and publish as is. 10% of the manuscripts almost made the grade, and needed work to get them to publishable state. That 10% occupied the largest part of his time as editor. He was editing for short story markets, but something very similar happens for novels. And in many cases, the editorial changes requested have a simple motive: make the book something the publisher can sell. Every line is subtly different in what it thinks it publishes and who it thinks the readers are, and a manuscript may not quite hit the mark that line is aiming for. Consider Harlequin's Luna imprint. They publish romantic fantasy. The fantasy is the dominant element, with romance as a sub-plot. If you submit a manuscript that is a crackling good fantasy but weak on the romance, Luna may buy it, but the revision letter from the editor will make suggestions to boost the romance content, because romantic fantasy is what the line publishes and what its readers expect. If you think the services of an editor can be dispensed with to give you the book cheaper, be careful what you wish for. You might get it, and I doubt you'll be happy with the result. What you see from a commercial publisher is the manuscript after editing. You don't see it before, and might be unhappy if you did. ______ Dennis Last edited by DMcCunney; 12-05-2010 at 01:54 PM. |
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#219 | |
eReader
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That's the comment I have the greater issue with. |
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#220 | ||
Wizard
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#221 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
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#222 | ||
New York Editor
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Making Light is an excellent source of info. But even if the reject rate is higher than the comment I quoted (which was specific to that editor's experience), it doesn't affect my point. (The editor, BTW, was the late George H. Scithers, who was the original editor at Isaac Asimov's SF Magazine before Gardner Dozois took over, and later was editor for Amazing Stories when TSR Publications picked it up. He was describing what he encountered. I used to live across the street from George back then, and was at a couple of editorial meetings as an interested observer.) Quote:
Large trade publishers have salaried employees on staff that do that sort of things. What they are increasingly not doing to cut costs is copy editing and proofreading, which do tend to be contracted out. A friend used to be VP of an editorial production house, that provided copy editing, proofreading, and typesetting services to publishers. She lamented on a list I'm on the number of publishers that were increasing not doing such things to save money. An editor for a trade house, who was on the same list at the time, responded "But such things are part of the basic budget of the book, and are always done!" "Maybe they still are at your house", was the reply, "but I'm the one dealing with clients who used to pay us to do it and don't any more!" ______ Dennis |
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#223 | ||
Wizard
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The situation that is described by Making Light is depressing: Quote:
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#224 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
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#225 | ||
New York Editor
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The people submitting to Asimov's and Amazing were all targeting the same limited market, and had at least some idea of what the market was and what they should submit. Back then, submissions were hardcopy (It was the late 60's/early 70's). Email didn't exist, and everyone was at pains to explain the format needed on your hardcopy submission to get it looked at. (Double-spaced in a readable font with decent margins, printed with a fresh ribbon, and your name/address and a word count up top on page 1, and include a stamped, self-addressed envelope with sufficient postage to cover costs if you wanted the editor to return it when it was rejected.) A depressing number failed that first step... Aside from Asimov's, the SF short story market included Analog also published by Dell Magazines), Fantasy and Science Fiction, Amazing, Fantastic, Galaxy, and Worlds of If. Only Analog, Asimovs, and F&SF still exist. Quote:
I was in various electronic forums back when aimed at writers looking for critiques of works in progress. It rapidly became obvious that 99% of them weren't looking for critiques. They wanted to be told how wonderful their writing was, and would bellow like they were being gelded at any suggestion it wasn't. Most of them were unlikely to ever be published. Writing requires a thick skin and a tolerance for rejection, because you will get rejected, a lot, before you reach published status, and even when you have there are no guarantees. There was an SF con on the West Coast years back, with a panel whose topic was "How do you know you've made it?", and the panelists were all published SF pros. Each panelist described how he knew he'd arrived. Then the mike went to the late Harry Stubbs, who wrote under the name "Hal Clement". "I still don't know!", said Harry. "I get rejected all the time!" After various hemming and hawing, the other panelists admitted that yes, the occasional rejection slip still arrived. If Hal Clement, SFWA Grandmaster, could admit he got rejected... ![]() (I knew Harry for years before he died of complications of diabetes. There wasn't a pretentious bone in his body. He'd freely admit to still getting rejected because it was the simple truth and he'd see no reason to lie about it. It wasn't like he hadn't proven his worth as an SF writer.) ______ Dennis Last edited by DMcCunney; 12-05-2010 at 04:00 PM. |
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