The people under the bridge

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by LDBoblo

Perhaps Amazon shouldn't try to steal our books out from under us then. Just sayin.

yeah, see that right there is the activity that I am talking about.

just sayin'

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by emellaich

If we want to have a detailed discussion of what actually happened in the 1984 situation we can, although its been done quite thoroughly in the past. Troll like behavior involves waving a red flag with no substance, just trying to get a reaction.

If you want to talk about the difficulties of getting library books onto the Kindle then you have an issue that indicates why someone might want a Sony instead. On the other hand, complaining about 'evil Amazon stealing our 1984' is just trying to raise tempers. It would be funny to compare the 'evil Amazon' comments from the 1984 debate with the 'evil Amazon' comments from the public domain books on Amazon brouhaha.

If you read the thread in question you will see that the 1984 incident only came up because someone said that there was no way that Amazon could ever even see what you are reading on your Kindle, never mind remove books from it. The fact remains that they built that capability into the Kindle and have used it in the past, so that proves it is entirely possible. Now it turns out that the person who said it wasn't possible did in fact know that it had happened.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

...that is trollish behaviour and intended to deliberately steer people away from the Kindle.

If you have valid reasons to assume someone is deliberately trying to steer people away from a product rather than just voicing his genuine concern, please use the report feature rather than to comment back in what could be perceived as pejorative. I consider the word "troll" as pejorative unless we can be certain that a person IS a troll, and that involves reviewing a person's posting history as well.

I'm tired of it. and I also am not going to run whining to a mod every time I see it. I don't know why we cannot be self policing unless it gets out of line

This is not whining - it is the right way to do. Mobileread is not a self policed community; there are reasons for us moderators to be here, and one of them is to prevent misunderstandings and the potential derailing of a discussion.

[imaredr]

Originally Posted by Exer

. One user looks at another users "device" listing, notices his/her device doesn't correlate to the sub-forum they are currently on.

Device listings can be misleading. I have never changed mine since I joined the forum, but I own quite a few different ebook devices.

Ellen

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

If you have valid reasons to assume someone is deliberately trying to steer people away from a product rather than just voicing his genuine concern, please use the report feature rather than to comment back in what could be perceived as pejorative. I consider the word "troll" as pejorative unless we can be certain that a person IS a troll, and that involves reviewing a person's posting history as well.

.

Read the thread. It was started by someone who was concerned about what Amazon could do with his Kindle. Keeping this information secret was at best deliberately misleading. It is the mob mentality of running people out of the forum for posting information they don't like that you need to do something about.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by Alexander Turcic

If you have valid reasons to assume someone is deliberately trying to steer people away from a product rather than just voicing his genuine concern, please use the report feature rather than to comment back in what could be perceived as pejorative. I consider the word "troll" as pejorative unless we can be certain that a person IS a troll, and that involves reviewing a person's posting history as well.



This is not whining - it is the right way to do. Mobileread is not a self policed community; there are reasons for us moderators to be here, and one of them is to prevent misunderstandings and the potential derailing of a discussion.

no, it's whining. if a bully pushes you on the playground, you can often say, "HEY! I don't appreciate that!" without going whining to the authorities, who are then told "who me? I didn't do anything"

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Read the thread. It was started by someone who was concerned about what Amazon could do with his Kindle. Keeping this information secret was at best deliberately misleading. It is the mob mentality of running people out of the forum for posting information they don't like that you need to do something about.

I believe the response were, it happened, they learned their lesson, it won't happen again. and NO! they don't look at your content! that is deliberate mis-information

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I believe the response were, it happened, they learned their lesson, it won't happen again. and NO! they don't look at your content! that is deliberate mis-information

Why does it say this in the license agreement for the Kindle?

the Kindle's software "will provide Amazon with data about your Device and its interaction with the Service...and information related to the content on your Device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the Device

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/12/e-book-privacy
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01...-guide-privacy

There is some more information about what information Kindles send to Amazon here:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51371

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Why does it say this in the license agreement for the Kindle?

the Kindle's software "will provide Amazon with data about your Device and its interaction with the Service...and information related to the content on your Device and your use of it (such as automatic bookmarking of the last page read and content deletions from the Device

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/12/e-book-privacy
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01...-guide-privacy

There is some more information about what information Kindles send to Amazon here:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51371

this is done by electronic sharing. no one is READING your content. when people are asking these questions, they are worried about PDFs and things that are sideloaded. Amazon cannot read that stuff. harping on about the 1984 issue is ludicrous

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Read the thread. It was started by someone who was concerned about what Amazon could do with his Kindle. Keeping this information secret was at best deliberately misleading. It is the mob mentality of running people out of the forum for posting information they don't like that you need to do something about.

that's a good point. read the thread. one person said it did not happen. there were numerous other people who explained at length how and why it did, how and why it won't happen again.

so, I am done here. if you want to continue discussing it, discuss it in the thread it belongs in

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

I'm calling the behaviour, not the person troll like. when the same question (1984) gets asked over and over again, and the same people that already have proven that they have an antagonistic attitude towards a particular device pop up with "oh but they DO do that!" that is trollish behaviour and intended to deliberately steer people away from the Kindle. I'm tired of it. and I also am not going to run whining to a mod every time I see it. I don't know why we cannot be self policing unless it gets out of line

Kindlekitten, whether you like it or not, what Amazon did IS and always WILL be a relevant issue. I was leaning 100% towards getting a Kindle when this story broke. I don't care, how it was resolved or why it happened in the first place. The fact remains is that they have the capability of going in and removing the books that you legally bought at anytime, whether or not that they promise never to do so again.

Add in the fact that I would be mostly permanantly tied to their store for my ebook purchases, I immediately dropped the Kindle off of my list of ereaders.

I don't trust ANY business to actually keep their word about anything. I have worked in the corporate world long enough to realize that they will do whatever is necessary to earn their stockholders money. Including lying to everyone & screwing their customers over when they can get away with it, and only stopping (maybe) when they get busted for doing so.

I am not a troll, just someone who also believes that it is an important issue to make prospective Kindle owners aware of. Just as it is important for owners of other readers (other than a Nook) to be aware of the fact that they cannot purchase and load B&N books onto their readers because of their stupid version of ADE drm. Because of that, I will never purchase a Nook.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

that's a good point. read the thread. one person said it did not happen. there were numerous other people who explained at length how and why it did, how and why it won't happen again.

so, I am done here. if you want to continue discussing it, discuss it in the thread it belongs in

I can't do that because it is in the Kindle forum and you have already made it clear I am not allowed in there.

The fact remains that if Amazon built that capability into the Kindle they would do so for a purpose. Looking around a bit more, it seems removing books is just the tip of it. They know what you are reading, your GPS location, how much you read, what notes you make, they have copies of anything you email to it. These are all documented facts whether you like it or not.

They are also highly relevent to a thread started by someone who was concerned about what Amazon can do to his Kindle without his permission.

[Richey79]

You don't see much trollin' on these forums... anyone who says otherwise has led a very sheltered online existence.

The only two subjects you see genuine troll-posts about are piracy/copyright (generally only once the thread has gone beyond eight pages or so) and those disparaging people who use ereaders in general.

The Kindle owner who made a post criticising Sony's market-strategy wasn't trolling. I imagine that was his genuinely-held opinion, and he had some intention of starting a discussion by stating it. It wasn't trolling, even if it was an opinion that he knew people on that sub-forum wouldn't want to hear and if the discussion prompted by it was not likely to be very valuable.

Far too often, people call 'troll' because someone makes a post that seems ignorant or even simply because they disagree with it.

I wish I could find an example of real trolling that I felt was suitable to link to on this forum... but sadly the best examples all involve either inflammatory language, the expression of offensive sentiments in an ironic-voice or at least inappropriate banner-ads. True trolls do it only for the lulz... .

If you have the steely will and robust constitution required, I would recommend a Google search for 'P-P-P-Powerbook' and 'Craig's list concealed weapons trolling.'

[mr ploppy]

The term "troll" on this site seems to be used more as a way to suppress discussion and a call to arms for everyone to pick up their pitchforks than in its true meaning from other forums. The gang mentality at its ugliest.

[edbro]

Originally Posted by Richey79

The Kindle owner who made a post criticising Sony's market-strategy wasn't trolling.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here. To what purpose would a Kindle owner need to navigate to the Sony forum and make a disparaging remark? What good does it do him as a Kindle owner? What good does it do for the Sony owners? I can only imagine that he/she did it to stir trouble. That is a troll.

[Alexander Turcic]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

The term "troll" on this site seems to be used more as a way to suppress discussion and a call to arms for everyone to pick up their pitchforks than in its true meaning from other forums. The gang mentality at its ugliest.

Gang mentality is the last we would want to encourage here, and we appreciate the feedback. Please, if you don't mind, help us by reporting future posts where you think the term troll is used merely in an attempt to suppress discussion.

Thank you!

Alex