DRM confusion - Page 6

mr ploppy · 11-23-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Obviously you haven't been to the Darknet in a while. Plenty of "ebookz" around, in both PDF and other, text-based formats.

The first ebook I ever downloaded has a file date stamp of 1998, but they were probably around long before that. It still isn't available commercially either.

DiapDealer · 11-23-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

I also suspect that when the initial DRM started to be widely circumvented the
Pro-DRM forces pushed for the adoption of the stricter "Topaz" DRM.

There's no such thing (and never was) as Topaz DRM. Topaz ebooks share the same DRM scheme as mobi books from Amazon. The problem with Topaz was that it is a new undocumented proprietary ebook format that must be "figured out", much the same way that the mobi format (also proprietary) has been deduced over the years.

Maybe it achieved the same thing as a new DRM scheme would, but I don't think that was the motivation behind Topaz.

speedlever · 11-23-2010, 03:15 PM

Basic assumptions:

1) The consumer merely wants to read the ebook of choice on the ereader of choice, without hassle and preferably at a reasonable price.

2) The author merely wants to sell to as large an audience as possible, also without hassle, and earn a living in the process.

3) The retailer wants to sell as many devices and ebooks as possible, both at a profit if possible, but certainly the consumable portion (the ebook) at a profit.

4) The publishers: what the heck do they want? I would think to sell as much to the retailers as possible.

That being the case, how does Kindle specific DRM and Nook specific DRM benefit anyone (except the lawyers) unless it's an attempt to drive one or the other (retailers) out of business. What am I missing?

wallcraft · 11-23-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedlever

That being the case, how does Kindle specific DRM and Nook specific DRM benefit anyone (except the lawyers) unless it's an attempt to drive one or the other (retailers) out of business.

The advantage of Amazon DRM and B&N DRM is that it does not cost Amazon and B&N anything to add it (they probably charge big publishers for the privilege). This gives them an advantage over all the Adobe DRM retailers, who are paying Adobe for the DRM and for download management.

It is a mystery to me why authors and publishers want DRM. It seems to be magical thinking, particularly on the part of the authors. There may in principle be additional DMCA-based legal protections for DRM-ridden ebooks, but I can't see this ever being a practical advantage.

rogue_librarian · 11-23-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Some country (can't remember which) already does that for music.

Canada has such a blank media levy, as have a number of countries in Europe. It's meant to compensate creators for users' rights to make private copies. It's not without problems, of course, especially given the nearly ubiquitous DRM and other copy protections schemes.

Grimm · 11-24-2010, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF2

I would guess that one main difference (and it probably has already been stated) between music/cd's and ebooks is that folks did not want to get forced into purchasing whole "albums" and folks like to create their own mixes of single tracks or random tracks.

That is certainly not the case with ebooks - it pretty much is all or nothing unless it is a short-story book or book of essays. There is no discrete $0.99 chapter.

Another big difference to me is that young people, the biggest group of mp3 fanatics, are more apt to be into music and mp3's etc than they are ebooks or reading at all really. There is a bigger audience for music than for pleasure reading. Not saying that's a good thing, just that I think it's likely true.

speedlever · 11-24-2010, 06:58 AM

Well I've decided to bite the bullet and get both a K3 and a Nook. The heck with this DRM stuff!

I found that you can get CPO wifi Nooks for $99 with a year warranty from B&N. I am NOT gonna stand inline on BF for any of those $99 new Nook deals.

Edit: Back to square one. I spent a lot of time playing with a Nook and a CNook at B&N today. Then had a quick glance at a K3 at Staples. I just can't pull the trigger on the Nook yet. I really like the K3. I find the Nook just clunky. And I so wanted to like the Nook.

CPO = certified pre-owned
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/cpo-nook/index.asp

sunnysmiles · 11-24-2010, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Obviously you haven't been to the Darknet in a while. Plenty of "ebookz" around, in both PDF and other, text-based formats.

Well if you occasionally vist the dark side you will see books that have been just released on the same day over their . Best selling authors and even Bliars autobiography. But if you Buy your books legimately you could be waiting months just to be able to buy it in the UK whereas it is available for down load on the dark side of the web .

It can well be a temptation to download from their if their is no chance of getting it any other way. Time they released ebooks on the same day over the world. So Im sitting waiting for a good few months for a book that I really want to read .

sadievan · 11-24-2010, 01:35 PM

I have a question. If I remove the DRM from a book and load it on a Kindle, can Amazon tell that it had been de-DRM'd?

Carol

sadievan · 11-24-2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedlever

Well I've decided to bite the bullet and get both a K3 and a Nook. The heck with this DRM stuff!

I found that you can get CPO wifi Nooks for $99 with a year warranty from B&N. I am NOT gonna stand inline on BF for any of those $99 new Nook deals.

What is CPO?

rogue_librarian · 11-24-2010, 01:40 PM

Going out on a limb here, "Certified Pre-Owned"?

sadievan · 11-24-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Going out on a limb here, "Certified Pre-Owned"?

Ahh! Thanks

Carol

Elfwreck · 11-25-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sadievan

I have a question. If I remove the DRM from a book and load it on a Kindle, can Amazon tell that it had been de-DRM'd?

Carol

As far as we know, Amazon takes no notice of "side-loaded" books--any of the ones you didn't purchase from them. There's no obvious, direct way of knowing if DRM has been removed from an ebook (other than comparing it to the DRM'd version and seeing how well the metadata matches, if it hasn't been changed, and whether it's got the same typos).

Someone at Amazon might know "that ebook is only sold in DRM'd versions," but they have no way to tell where *your* version came from. Maybe you typed the whole thing in by hand. Maybe you're a book reviewer and the company gave you a DRM-free copy for review. Maybe you're a personal friend of the author and the version you have is one of the pre-print versions that he shared with friends before sending it to the publisher. (Yeah, none of those is particularly likely, but there are other, more complicated and less unlikely, possibilities of having a legitimate non-DRM'd version of a book that's only sold in paper and ADE epub.)

Having a non-DRM'd version of a current popular book on your reader is not a direct sign of wrongdoing.

Also, Amazon has much better things to do with its time & bandwidth than to go crawling through Kindles looking for filenames that *might* be bootleg ebooks. (If I have a book called "Harry Potter 3" on my ebook reader--that could be a bootleg of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban," or it could be a legit copy of "Harry Potter and the Bound Prince, Book 3: The White Queen," a Harry/Draco fanfic.)

sadievan · 11-25-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

As far as we know, Amazon takes no notice of "side-loaded" books--any of the ones you didn't purchase from them. There's no obvious, direct way of knowing if DRM has been removed from an ebook (other than comparing it to the DRM'd version and seeing how well the metadata matches, if it hasn't been changed, and whether it's got the same typos).

Someone at Amazon might know "that ebook is only sold in DRM'd versions," but they have no way to tell where *your* version came from. Maybe you typed the whole thing in by hand. Maybe you're a book reviewer and the company gave you a DRM-free copy for review. Maybe you're a personal friend of the author and the version you have is one of the pre-print versions that he shared with friends before sending it to the publisher. (Yeah, none of those is particularly likely, but there are other, more complicated and less unlikely, possibilities of having a legitimate non-DRM'd version of a book that's only sold in paper and ADE epub.)

Having a non-DRM'd version of a current popular book on your reader is not a direct sign of wrongdoing.

Also, Amazon has much better things to do with its time & bandwidth than to go crawling through Kindles looking for filenames that *might* be bootleg ebooks. (If I have a book called "Harry Potter 3" on my ebook reader--that could be a bootleg of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban," or it could be a legit copy of "Harry Potter and the Bound Prince, Book 3: The White Queen," a Harry/Draco fanfic.)

Thanks so much for the explanation. So I guess I should not be afraid to put a liberated copy of a book on my Kindle (when I get it for Christmas)?

Another question, if I delete a non-DRM book from my Kindle, it is just deleted correct? Does not go to Amazon for archive. Only books I purchase from Amazon are archived on their site.

Carol

boxcorner · 11-25-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedlever

... CPO = certified pre-owned ...

I used to understand English.

11-24-2010, 06:58 AM	#82
speedlever Fanatic Posts: 592 Karma: 138200 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NC, USA Device: PW2014, PW2012, iPad Pro	Well I've decided to bite the bullet and get both a K3 and a Nook. The heck with this DRM stuff! I found that you can get CPO wifi Nooks for $99 with a year warranty from B&N. I am NOT gonna stand inline on BF for any of those $99 new Nook deals. Edit: Back to square one. I spent a lot of time playing with a Nook and a CNook at B&N today. Then had a quick glance at a K3 at Staples. I just can't pull the trigger on the Nook yet. I really like the K3. I find the Nook just clunky. And I so wanted to like the Nook. CPO = certified pre-owned http://www.barnesandnoble.com/nook/cpo-nook/index.asp Last edited by speedlever; 11-24-2010 at 02:29 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Confusion	Epuppy	Sony Reader	9	10-19-2010 05:57 AM
PRS-300 Font confusion	garbanzo	Sony Reader	1	03-17-2010 04:28 PM
Calibre ID Confusion?	Timoleon	Calibre	1	09-13-2009 02:12 PM
ePub Confusion	notsure	ePub	3	05-24-2009 11:19 AM

11-23-2010, 03:15 PM	#78
speedlever Fanatic Posts: 592 Karma: 138200 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: NC, USA Device: PW2014, PW2012, iPad Pro	Basic assumptions: 1) The consumer merely wants to read the ebook of choice on the ereader of choice, without hassle and preferably at a reasonable price. 2) The author merely wants to sell to as large an audience as possible, also without hassle, and earn a living in the process. 3) The retailer wants to sell as many devices and ebooks as possible, both at a profit if possible, but certainly the consumable portion (the ebook) at a profit. 4) The publishers: what the heck do they want? I would think to sell as much to the retailers as possible. That being the case, how does Kindle specific DRM and Nook specific DRM benefit anyone (except the lawyers) unless it's an attempt to drive one or the other (retailers) out of business. What am I missing?

11-24-2010, 01:35 PM	#84
sadievan Wizard Posts: 1,931 Karma: 5456284 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2, iPhone, Kindle Fire HD 6	I have a question. If I remove the DRM from a book and load it on a Kindle, can Amazon tell that it had been de-DRM'd? Carol

11-24-2010, 01:40 PM	#86
rogue_librarian Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 4269175 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Europe Device: Pocketbook Basic 613	Going out on a limb here, "Certified Pre-Owned"?