So, briefly, what do you think about the Kindle now?

[gregr209]

Originally Posted by schulzmc

And now this thread has been almost completely hijacked.

How about you guys start a new thread on this (because it is an interesting discussion) and let this one go back to brief "now that I've had mine a few days" reactions?

I'll get back to the point. I have now had my Kindle for 2 days now. Used it yesterday in my commute to San Francisco on BART. I read the SF Chronicle which was an okay experience. Reading the paper on the Kindle or any ereader isn't the same.

I have noticed that my battery level is now less then half after 2 days. Yesterday I kept the wireless off most of the day but that quick discharge is somewhat concerning me. My Sony Reader wasn't a worry at all.

One other quick point was on my return trip home yesterday on BART I had a couple question me about what I had in my hand and after explaining it to them they were all jazzed up about the idea of reading off the Kindle and were amazed at how the screen was so readable. Needless to say, I didn't get much reading done on my way home last night :-)

Greg

[azog]

Originally Posted by gregr209

I'll get back to the point. I have now had my Kindle for 2 days now. Used it yesterday in my commute to San Francisco on BART. I read the SF Chronicle which was an okay experience. Reading the paper on the Kindle or any ereader isn't the same.

I subscribed to the 14-day trial of the NYT, and am inclined to agree. I'm not sure if it's just the implementation, or if it's just me. Reading newspapers in a browser, while obviously quite different from the Kindle, is at least somewhat closer to reading paper editions. Not sure if I'll continue beyond the trial.

Originally Posted by gregr209

I have noticed that my battery level is now less then half after 2 days. Yesterday I kept the wireless off most of the day but that quick discharge is somewhat concerning me. My Sony Reader wasn't a worry at all.

Hmph, I'd keep an eye on that. I got my Kindle on Nov 23, and read about 300 pages (along with the obligatory playing around with features and stuff), and last night (Nov 30) was the first night I needed to charge it, when it hit 25%. That's a good week of fairly solid reading.

[hidari]

\\
Well Said Bingle welcome to the real world. IF the sign says Stolen Apples or Free apples the fact is the name of the game has changed.

The music industry is having to adapt to it and The Publishing industry and authors will have too as well. May make life harder for Publishers and Authors but.. The invisible hand does not care. The beauty of it is now the consumer has more say as opposed to before where the consumer had most of his "choices" shoved down his throat...and the choices were few. Granted the internet creates a lot of JUNK but then so do publishers and many authors....

Originally Posted by bingle

This is the part of the equation that's changing, though. Currently, that's the way it works - people have to pay for a copy of everything in order to subsidize the massive up-front costs of the product. But the fact of the matter is that it's easy and free to copy certain products, and that's not going to change.

Someone earlier said that the free market didn't include things like The Pirate Bay - except, it does. If you set up an apple cart next to the guy with the "free apples" sign, you're not going to be doing a lot of business. It may not be fair, or even legal, but the invisible hand doesn't seem to care. Consumers know how to easily get free copies of books and music and software and movies. If you want to make money off of those things, you'd better find a way that doesn't involve selling copies.

To clarify, I'm not advocating piracy. But if you're planning a business that revolves around intellectual property in this day and age, you need to keep piracy in mind (and YouTube, MySpace sample tracks, fan fiction, Open Source, and all the other legal ways of distributing content for free.)

[schulzmc]

My Kindle came this morning and I've had a few hours to use it. Here are my initial reactions:

The cover is not as bad as expected - in fact, I like it. It (with Kindle inside) is about the same size as the Moleskine journal I use, and they sit together perfectly in my pack. When reading I leave the Kindle in the case and fold the cover back. With my index finger between the back and folded over front cover, my other fingers behind, and my thumb resting on the right side next page button, I can easily read one handed. I also may add some velcro to make it more secure - but so far, so good.

The device is amazing - I won't repeat all the other positive comments about the ease of use of the store, ability to look up a word, etc. Basically, the device does what it should: it allows me to carry around the four books I am reading right now and read them comfortably when and where I want. The fact that I have Time in there is an added bonus (although I would rather have some different magazines, when the selection gets better).

On the negative side there were a couple of surprises. I was hoping the ability to use a larger type face would allow me to leave my reading glasses on my desk. While it is possible to read with a larger font without my glasses, I find using glasses and the normal font size more pleasing for reading. The other thing that I was surprised to find is the white case makes the screen look gray. Just for the heck of it I took some black electrical tape and "framed" the display and it looked much better against that background. (I didn't leave the tape on there, of course.) Makes me wish they had chosen black for the case.

All in all, I think I have a new best friend.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by schulzmc

On the negative side there were a couple of surprises. I was hoping the ability to use a larger type face would allow me to leave my reading glasses on my desk. While it is possible to read with a larger font without my glasses, I find using glasses and the normal font size more pleasing for reading. The other thing that I was surprised to find is the white case makes the screen look gray. Just for the heck of it I took some black electrical tape and "framed" the display and it looked much better against that background. (I didn't leave the tape on there, of course.) Makes me wish they had chosen black for the case.

All in all, I think I have a new best friend.

I suspect that your glasses include astigmatism correction. this is why your will find the reading not a pleasant without them.

Dale

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Liviu_5

What are these costs? What are the costs of creating a book by a bestselling author that makes tons of money vs the costs of creating a book by an obscure author that sells 400 hc's?? Books are not widgets, so there is no such a thing as the cost of creating a book.

I take it that you've never had a book published? Publishers do all sorts of work that's not immediately obviously to those who've not gone through the mill. Firstly, most books are submitted to the publisher are in no fit state to publish; the publisher employs an editor to basically get it into shape. Once it is in shape the publisher's marketting and publicity machine swings into action, and that varies drastically between a book by a "big name celeb" and "Joe Nobody".

Aside from the actual printing costs (which are pretty minimal) all these costs apply equally to eBooks as they do to pBooks.

[jasonkchapman]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Once it is in shape the publisher's marketting and publicity machine swings into action

Just as a point of interest (because you can never hear too much about how weird the publishing biz is):

Marketing often gets involved before the editor even accepts the book. Most of the majors run the book past the sales folks, crunch some numbers, and decide whether they think it will make money. Once the editing process begins, those same numbers determine things like initial print run, position in the upcoming catalog (front page for winners, mid-list, also-offered), how much to spend on the cover, how many review copies to send out to which reviewers.

The initial assessment from marketing can impact the book's entire future before the publisher even buys the book.

[Liviu_5]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I take it that you've never had a book published? Publishers do all sorts of work that's not immediately obviously to those who've not gone through the mill. Firstly, most books are submitted to the publisher are in no fit state to publish; the publisher employs an editor to basically get it into shape. Once it is in shape the publisher's marketting and publicity machine swings into action, and that varies drastically between a book by a "big name celeb" and "Joe Nobody".

Aside from the actual printing costs (which are pretty minimal) all these costs apply equally to eBooks as they do to pBooks.

I agree with most of the above except that printing costs and inventory carrying costs are not that minimal (after all there is a reason printing on demand is not that successful a business), so there is a significant difference between let's call them the practical costs of publishing an e-book vs a p-book.

However my original point was that the huge variable in creating a book is the author compensation which is determined by the market (or the perception the publisher has about the market) and that variability simply means there is no such a thing as the "cost of production" of a book unless you want to talk about the practical aspects only and that is sort of meaningless. Books are not interchangeable widgets. A book that sells 1M copies is just not the same as a book that sells 400 copies whatever the format.

Ultimately the price is determined by bid and offer, and right now for e-books the offer is very high (for whatever reasons justified or not) to what the bid is, hence the pathetically low dollar value of the e-book business compared to the print book business.

And again my opinion is that this is not going to change whatever new devices are introduced since people just do not want to pay that much for digital content (again for whatever reasons justified or not). The offer need to come way down for the e-book market to take off.

[bingle]

Originally Posted by pilotbob

I assume when you say "copy" you are talking about functionality and not implementation... such as Open Office which is free (as in Libre) vs MS Word which is not free.

Or, are you saying that since MS Word can be coppied easily it is ok to copy it?

BOb

I'm talking about illegal copies of software, not legal workalikes.

I'm not saying it's OK to copy MS Word. I'm saying that people will copy it, OK or not. The same with music and movies and books. So if someone wants to make money writing ebooks, they had better come up with a different way of doing it.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by bingle

I'm not saying it's OK to copy MS Word. I'm saying that people will copy it, OK or not. The same with music and movies and books. So if someone wants to make money writing ebooks, they had better come up with a different way of doing it.

I'd like to think rather better about people. Most people, I believe, take the view that just because it's possible to copy an eBook doesn't make it morally justifiable to do so.

If one follows the line of reasoning that because one can steal it, people will do so, nobody would buy a car because they could just go out and steal one. Stealing a car is not technically difficult, after all. Want a new TV? Break into your neightbour's house and steal theirs. You'd have to be stupid to pay for a TV when you can steal one for free. Wouldn't you?

I'd like to think that most people know the difference between "right" and "wrong" and will regard taking something without paying for it as wrong.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'd like to think rather better about people. Most people, I believe, take the view that just because it's possible to copy an eBook doesn't make it morally justifiable to do so.

If one follows the line of reasoning that because one can steal it, people will do so, nobody would buy a car because they could just go out and steal one. Stealing a car is not technically difficult, after all. Want a new TV? Break into your neightbour's house and steal theirs. You'd have to be stupid to pay for a TV when you can steal one for free. Wouldn't you?

I'd like to think that most people know the difference between "right" and "wrong" and will regard taking something without paying for it as wrong.

This was my point with the whole "Stolen Apples" vs. "Free Apples" in a previous post. I think when it comes to digital products, whether it be software, video, music or books, people have a hard time seeing it as the same kind of theft as pocketing a CD in a shop. I believe that if people really got that, they'd be far less inclined to steal. They think of it as free or "sharing" which are much more kindly concepts.

[hidari]

your point is well stated Alice. However..The problems is it is Digital. I think that is how the dynamics of the system have changed. To most minds, Stealing a CD or book from a store is stealing; however, copying or sharing a CD or an ebook is not.

For people over 25 that may make sense. But the Youth borrow, copy, and share digital CDs books ad infinitum...

Originally Posted by Alisa

This was my point with the whole "Stolen Apples" vs. "Free Apples" in a previous post. I think when it comes to digital products, whether it be software, video, music or books, people have a hard time seeing it as the same kind of theft as pocketing a CD in a shop. I believe that if people really got that, they'd be far less inclined to steal. They think of it as free or "sharing" which are much more kindly concepts.

[azog]

You know what's kinda funny. Just recently there have been some blog headlines about Amazon and their DRM-free music service:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/03/w...-drm-pressure/

I wonder why the contradiction between their music service or their Kindle service?

[rflashman]

I've come to strongly believe that copyright is socially dead. As a society we only believe it is a crime to sell what is not yours (a store selling stolen content for example), but socially we have accepted that non-financial duplication is not a crime. You cannot find anyone left in our society who has not at some point copied a document, song, or video and felt bad or guilty about it.

Content creators (books, movies, music) will gain income through distribution convenience (easier to buy from Amazon than go find a site to download from) and directed marketing (you buy what is marketed to you), etc.

What the industry stupidly sees as lost sales (pirate sites, bittorrent, copying, sharing, etc.) becomes nothing but the same loss they had when people borrowed content (books, videos, music albums). They probably would never have made these "lost sales" in the first place and as market prices adjust to practical realities, the consumers flock to what is most convenient.

Look at cable. We all have the option to put an aerial up and be entertained for FREE. But we all pay instead $100-200 a month for cable because we want a zillion extra channels (a zillion extra content). But according to nielsens ratings, what do we watch every night? The same shows that were available free. We just wanted the 'option' to occassionally wander beyond the limited selection of over-the-air content. Sure the networks experienced some loss due to so much content now being available (some people really wanted that secondary content). But they survived, and the viewers got the benefit of expanded content that they never would have gotten in the first place (insert your favorite unknown cable channel here).

Amazon, in a way, is offering a model of this. Expanded content through self-publishing, some additional upfront cost for additional convenience/access to expanded content, etc. Sure I can pirate one of Jordan's books if I look hard and long enough (though I have a feeling he's quite the expert on tracking that down), but it is/was so much more convenient to paypal him $10 for his book collection that I never bothered. Convenient and marketing (via his email post promoting his bundle) beat out free. Copyright/DRM was moot.

[markbot]

I just got my Kindle and I'm absolutely in love with it. This is it. This is the ultimate service. The speed is great. I love the font....on the 2nd level of font, 2 kindle pages = 1 paperback page. The dictionary function is fantastic....looks up every word in the line. perfect. wikipedia is tremendously useful.

The one design decision I really like is the mirror lcd scroll thingy. Makes selecting much easier....hopefully in the future, the screen tech on the page refresh will be so fast that you won't need it though.

A few tweeks.

1) The leather cover sucks. I don't like leather....prefer imitation, except with shoes. They obviously didn't think of the cover when designing the device. Sort of a novice mistake....don't you think?

2) You must sample the books before you buy them. Not all ebooks are formatted correctly. I sampled this one book....and the text was completely wrong because it had line breaks cutting off sentences. It was meant to be read on a wider screen. Not only that, some ebooks don't even have a table of contents. Lastly, the ebooks need to have the chapter and section in the header. But this will all improve as Kindle specific editions come out.

3) In the future, publishers need a version with the footnotes embedded. We know the kindle can do user footnotes. There is no reason why the book publishers can't insert bookmarks into the passage. So far, none of the books I sampled or bought had any footnotes. Footnotes are abolutely worth money, especially in the more arcane texts.

4) When I go back and forth between the store and the kindle...I lose my place in the store and have to search for the book I was looking at. I suppose this might be semi-fixed by using the page forward? But still...if I go inside of a book and then go back to the store...I've lost my place in the store.

5) As with every single other person who has ever commented on the Kindle....they need to make the page turn buttons less easy to hit by accident.

6) I'm sure they are going to improve the technology over time. My suggestions are to improve the page refresh, improve typing...function of page refresh...and increase the processor speed...a standard upgrade. Also some other standard upgrades are to increase the gray scale.

7) I think there would be a market for a deluxe version of the Kindle. Something with a slightly bigger screen....higher gray scale, faster page refresh, faster processor...etc. Charge $100 more.

That's it for now.