You don't matter - and you never did

[Seanette]

Originally Posted by L.J. Sellers

I think the point is that people who don't buy $26 hard covers are the same people who won't spend more than $9.99 on a e-book. I don't think this is true. I'm one of those people who don't buy hardbacks, for many reasons, but I don't think much about the price of e-books I really want. All consumers matter.
L.J.

Not all of us who generally don't buy hardback are chronic cheapskates (although for some of us, money is tight enough that if we're going to have any entertainment, we have to find frugal ways to get it, as has been the case for me at various points in my life). For me, paperbacks are easier on touchy wrists and less worrying to read while eating, bathing, etc. They also fit better in my purse.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Seanette

Not all of us who generally don't buy hardback are chronic cheapskates (although for some of us, money is tight enough that if we're going to have any entertainment, we have to find frugal ways to get it, as has been the case for me at various points in my life). For me, paperbacks are easier on touchy wrists and less worrying to read while eating, bathing, etc. They also fit better in my purse.

Well, switching to e-books taught me someting.
The main reason i avoided hardback where becasue they are heavy to carry, takes lots of room. More than the price.
The only hardbacks I bought where harry potter, because i coudn't wait. (I still managed to get spoilled )
The rest, I waited for paperback, or borrowed the book at the library.

[thrawn_aj]

All this would be very nice if the publishers weren't acting like whining babies ranting about "the death of the publishing industry" after every tiny new innovation comes by to upset their medieval business models. This is not the aloof titan of industry portrayed in the original post .

Considering the tremendous lobbying efforts by the publishing industry towards building insane copyright laws that seek to mask their own incompetence, I would say that the people OP was talking about do matter - an inordinate amount (unfortunately) to some of the paranoid freaks that rule this industry. Why else would they base their entire corporate policy and business strategy on the actions of these "people who don't matter"?

I wish the OP were correct - at least then the industry would behave like a capitalist industry should - and not seek to emulate the worst kinds of socialist protectionism.

And to the OP - you don't have to own an original Picasso to be an art lover. Please keep things in perspective. Only a tiny fraction of the books that come out in hardcover are worthy of being that durable. Most aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Seems like a bloody waste to spend all those resources printing those beautiful books with trashy content of fleeting importance (if that). I buy a lot of hardcovers - but only those that I plan to keep for a long time (ideally my entire life). The latest mainstream thriller is worth cheap copier paper at most - why would I buy a hardcover of that? They should make disposable versions of these (like newspapers). I can see why libraries would buy them (durability - but then they have to preserve everything ).

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by leebase

Those are the folks who never spent $25 for a hard back, who never supported the art. That they won't spend $12.99 to $14.99 doesn't matter because folks like them (including me) never mattered.

Wrong, I pay that for books I want....but they go on my shelf, and are tangible and mine to do as I please with, there are no restrictions, and I can re-sell if I feel like it.

[basschick]

in the immortal words of bugs bunny, "what a maroon".

i've bought many many hardback books in my life that were not clearanced, some ebooks that were on full new price that i just could not resist, and right now i have pre-ordered 2 books to be delivered on the date they're released.

besides, how cheap can most of the folks on this board be? many of us have bought pretty pricy ebook readers from before kindle and nook dropped the price. i've bought hundreds of books, and i'm not alone.

you're right - we don't matter to most of the big publishers, not at all. but considering what some of us spend regularly on books and ebooks, that just shows how poorly they understand business compared to other industries.

[HappyMartin]

I just love the title of this thread. Every time I read it I feel so free. So liberated of all responsibility. If I dont count I can do anything I want.

There has to be some truth to it. I have been buying books for ages and I have always had a suspicion that publishers were ignoring me by producing mostly stuff that I dont care for. Now I know.

[Nukethewolf]

Originally Posted by abookreader

That post reads like a chapter in the WalMart cashier employee manual titled "Customer Service, Who Gives a Shit?"


Actually I take that back, WalMart cashiers generally don't think I matter, but they nearly always give me a Hello.

Ahaha - I laughed hard. Thank you!

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by leebase

It's never set by those who don't value the product. I obviously didn't mean the one guy willing to buy a book for $1000 sets the price. But given that millions of books sell for more than $20 lets us know that the mass market price for new works is -- $20 or more.

No, the market price for the (relatively small) set of people willing to buy more for hardbacks is that price.
The mass market price is the one charged for (hello!) mass market paperbacks.

The approach you are making, and ignoring when everyone is pointing out that you are wrong, is that only the hardback buying crowd matter. Not true. If that was the case we wouldn't have paperbacks. In fact paperbacks wouldn't be by far the largest section in book stores.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by leebase

Those are the folks who never spent $25 for a hard back, who never supported the art.

Major publishing houses are no more about 'supporting the art of writing' than major record labels are about supporting the art of song writing, or major Hollywood studios are about supporting the art of film making.
The are in it for business, not art.

The people who pay are the only ones who ever matter. Just like as a photographer it doesn't matter to me if someone thinks $50 is too much for a professional print as such people simply don't value my art enough to pay for it. I spend my time caring about the folks who do care for and are willing to pay for art.

And yet, as a business model, yours is less profitable than the mall photographer or major chain, who will be making far more money selling cheap photos to people willing to pay $5-$10 for them.
Major publishers are mall photographers, not studio artists, and they are interested in selling photos of little Jonny on Santa's knee.
Selling art is of necessity limited to small volume, high value items. Selling entertainment is not. The vast majority of books are entertainment, not art.

(Is there a chip-on-the-shoulder smiley?)

[tompe]

Originally Posted by SlowRain

ardeegee, you beat me to it.

One given in life is that those who know are usually at the mercy of those who don't. Another given is that the non-pretentious are the victims of the pretentious.

The American publishing industry is horribly managed, similar to the American auto industry. They don't know what people want, so they produce almost anything, hoping that the one or two hits will offset the multitude of misses. It's very costly and inefficient. We know this, yet we are at the mercy of those who think it actually costs that much to produce a given book.

What? If it is not known how to find books that sells without having misses it cannot be mis-managment that is the cause. Also the misses has to be taken into the cost to produce a specific book. What publishers provides is a filter mechanism. You pay for access to that filter when you buy the book.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

No, the market price for the (relatively small) set of people willing to buy more for hardbacks is that price.
The mass market price is the one charged for (hello!) mass market paperbacks.

The approach you are making, and ignoring when everyone is pointing out that you are wrong, is that only the hardback buying crowd matter. Not true. If that was the case we wouldn't have paperbacks. In fact paperbacks wouldn't be by far the largest section in book stores.

And you are totally ignoring the well known fact that it is the best selling hardcover books that are the books that generate the most important income for the publisher.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by tompe

And you are totally ignoring the well known fact that it is the best selling hardcover books that are the books that generate the most important income for the publisher.

I'm not saying hardback books aren't important.
I'm saying that hardbacks are important, as are trade paperbacks, as are mass market paperbacks. They all make money at different stages of the life of a book.
The original poster is saying (repeatedly) that if you don't buy first run full price hardbacks then the publishers don't care about you. He is saying that only hardbacks matter. That is what I am disagreeing with.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

I'm not saying hardback books aren't important.
I'm saying that hardbacks are important, as are trade paperbacks, as are mass market paperbacks. They all make money at different stages of the life of a book.
The original poster is saying (repeatedly) that if you don't buy first run full price hardbacks then the publishers don't care about you. He is saying that only hardbacks matter. That is what I am disagreeing with.

I read all this in the context of the initial price that are set on a book. Because it is the initial price that people are mostly complaining on. It is not the price after one year we are discussing here.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by tompe

I read all this in the context of the initial price that are set on a book. Because it is the initial price that people are mostly complaining on. It is not the price after one year we are discussing here.

This is the post that started the thread:

To my fellow forum participants all upset at the cost of ebooks. You seem to be under the impression that you matter. Well, you don't. You never did. You never paid $25 to $30 for a new hard back book. You used the library, borrowed from a friend, bought at garage sales -- or perhaps you bought the paper back when the really cheap mass produced version came out.

So -- continue on. Use the library. Buy from the remainder bin at Costco. Wait until your best friend reads the book she bought and then borrow it. Troll through the neighborhood yard sales and buy books for pennies.

You simply don't matter to the publishers and you never did. You have never supported the art and you never will. That's ok. There should be used books for the rest of your reading lifetime.

In particular:
"or perhaps you bought the paper back when the really cheap mass produced version came out."
"You seem to be under the impression that you matter. Well, you don't. You never did."
"You simply don't matter to the publishers and you never did. You have never supported the art and you never will."

The message seems pretty clear.
(As does the bitterness and sense of superiority)

[DixieGal]

Good morning! I see we all went to bed angry -- not a good thing. The OP achieved his goal to incite a war. The more we keep this hate-filled thread going, the longer the OP wins. Let's put an end to it and chat about inclusive and useful topics in the polite and friendly way that MR is remarkable for.