The Vent and Rant Thread

[poohbear_nc]

I would suggest - rather than derail the V&R thread, if you want to continue this discussion - create a thread in the Politics & Religion forum, and post a link here to the new thread.

[kindlekitten]

ack! I am just sick! my heart is breaking for these poor people! a police officer MURDERED a Newfie!. his excuse was that the dog "showed its teeth". these dogs are simply incapable of harming anyone! the instances of aggressive Newfoundlands registers in basically negative numbers. I can't imagine what would have happened if it was a person. they had four officers, including one with a SNIPER RIFLE!!!! this is a link from the home owner whose house the murder occurred at

[obs20]

I think it would be a good idea for Amazon to have an adults only section that could be restricted by Net Nanny and similar software.

Beyond that, if we are to have a free society, then we must tolerate the dissemination of repugnant ideas.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

But damn it, there has to be some sort of line to which we can not cross and still consider ourselves moral individuals.

I draw the line at harm - if no-one's being harmed by it, then fine. And by that I mean unconcensual actions - if two or more people want to get their rocks off by hitting each other, and they've all consented (without force, coercion etc), then I wouldn't consider that harm, or even any of my business.

If one doesn't act in a humane fashion, should one be protected by the laws of society? Or is that what society is all about; i.e. the protection of any and all, regardless of their actions. Personally, I don't think so! I think we have to qualify as humans before we can receive humanity's gift of society.

Stitchawl

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

ack! I am just sick! my heart is breaking for these poor people! a police officer MURDERED a Newfie!. his excuse was that the dog "showed its teeth". these dogs are simply incapable of harming anyone! the instances of aggressive Newfoundlands registers in basically negative numbers. I can't imagine what would have happened if it was a person. they had four officers, including one with a SNIPER RIFLE!!!! this is a link from the home owner whose house the murder occurred at

KK, unless you know more than what is in the article you can't make assumptions. From my own experience I have to agree with you that I've never heard of a newfie ever hurting anyone, on the other hand the one witness did say the dog looked scared and a scared will do things that are completely out of character.

With that being said from the way it sounds in the article I tend to agree with you that this did not need to happen, the thing that really got me was that the one officer said "...we have never had one this big before..." - crap, how often do they do this?

It is too bad that there was not someone there with a bit of a cooler head, or some familiarity with the breed who could have said, hell lock him in the yard and find the owner.

This is a very sad story though, and you have to wonder why their first apparent act was to shoot the poor dog.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

What makes a human being human? (Not speaking biologically here either.)
To me, to qualify as human, one must act in a humane fashion. If one doesn't act in a humane fashion, should one be protected by the laws of society? Or is that what society is all about; i.e. the protection of any and all, regardless of their actions. Personally, I don't think so! I think we have to qualify as humans before we can receive humanity's gift of society.

Stitchawl

I have to disagree. You can act in an inhumane way and still be human. In fact part of being human is being able to make your own choices and act how you like. With that being said, I think it is well within reason to protect the rest of us from people who do not, for whatever reason, chose to act in accordance with what are the socially acceptable norms.

So, in this case, lock the fool up and toss the key. From what I've read, even in jail there is a special place for people like him and those he wrote the book for - and it is not a happy place. If there is an act or concept that even criminals find reprehensible that ought to be a good indicator right there.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by dsvick

KK, unless you know more than what is in the article you can't make assumptions. From my own experience I have to agree with you that I've never heard of a newfie ever hurting anyone, on the other hand the one witness did say the dog looked scared and a scared will do things that are completely out of character.

With that being said from the way it sounds in the article I tend to agree with you that this did not need to happen, the thing that really got me was that the one officer said "...we have never had one this big before..." - crap, how often do they do this?

It is too bad that there was not someone there with a bit of a cooler head, or some familiarity with the breed who could have said, hell lock him in the yard and find the owner.

This is a very sad story though, and you have to wonder why their first apparent act was to shoot the poor dog.

did you look at the second link? that is from the impartial homeowner where the murder occurred

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by dsvick

Kenny I agree with you that there is no reason the book shouldn't be written or offered for sale. I do however question the moral and ethical viewpoint of all parties concerned, from the author to the publisher to Amazon, in the production and sale of it. It seriously shakes my faith in society that at some point one of them didn't say "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it."

I agree completely.

[desertgrandma]

As this is the 'rant' thread, I shall post this here, then i shall be gone. I need to seriously think about where I want to spend my time.

Last night, after reading about that piece of trash disguised as a book, I sent an email to Amazon. The following is the reply I received this morning.

Now.....I see a lot of 'hand wringing' here......the "oh my, this is terrible but its a free society and we must have law.

Well, my friends, it is a free society, and we do have "law", for what its worth.

Yet this piece of trash is allowed to publish thru a world wide chain how to sexually penetrate and abuse babies and children, in a "Loving" way You think thats not what pedophelia is?

Of all the crimes committed by humanity, this is the worst. Yet.........what is the concensus? "put him in jail" "He's damaged, treat him"

Oh yeah, thats gonna take care of the problem.

Let me explain something to you all.......you don't "treat" these people. You exterminate them like the vermin they are. I want you all to think, instead of them, of the innocents, and the fear and pain they suffer thruout their lives because these people have a right to live.
I want you to think of the 2 month old here in Arizona who was penetrated, and what this baby went thru, and of all the their children around the world who are abused in this way, because no one has the guts to stand up and say "enough'. Some things are not to be tolerated. Lets clear these scum off the face of the earth".
So.....here is Amazons reply, and I'm very close to flinging my K3 into the trash. I just want to go throw up right now.
I have to think long and hard about how to deal with this in my own mind, because right now......I just want to find a way to get this out of my head.

And I can't.

Hello,

As a retailer, our goal is to provide customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any item they might be seeking. That selection includes some items which many people may find objectionable. Therefore, the items offered on our website represent a wide spectrum of opinions on a variety of topics.

Let me assure you that Amazon.com does not support or promote hatred or criminal acts; we do support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions.

Amazon.com believes it is censorship not to sell certain titles because we believe their message is objectionable. Therefore, we'll continue to make controversial works available in the United States and everywhere else, except where they're prohibited by law. We also allow readers, authors, and publishers to express their views freely about these titles and other products we offer on our website. However, Amazon.com doesn't endorse opinions expressed by individual authors, musical artists, or filmmakers.

We value all feedback from our customers, and I thank you again for taking the time to send us your comments about this issue. Although we won't be able to comment further on this topic, we hope you'll allow us to continue to serve you.

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

did you look at the second link? that is from the impartial homeowner where the murder occurred

I did read that one. All of the questions she asks at the end are valid, and I definitely agree that it didn't have to end the way it did. I think it was ignorance on the part of the police that caused the needless death of the dog.

My only contention is that you can't say the dog was not violent or threatening at any point in course of the events that lead up to its death. I agree newfies are one of the most gentle, laid back, easy going breeds there are, but everything has its limits and all it takes is one uneducated person to assume the worst of what they see a giant, black monster dog and treat it in the wrong way at the wrong time and it will go down hill from there.

Hopefully, there will be some serious education classes given to the police involved, and the owner of the dog will hopefully push to get all the answers and to do what they can to make sure this doesn't happen again.

[ShortNCuddlyAm]

The thing that gets me about the newfie story is that it was trapped in a yard, apparently clearly not being agressive to either the property owner or their small terrier. Why on earth couldn't they have left it there, and got the owners? Or tranqed it if they really felt it was a threat, and then got the owners? Just because a dog shows its teeth doesn't mean it's going to attack.

[dsvick]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Hello,

As a retailer, our goal is to provide customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any item they might be seeking. That selection includes some items which many people may find objectionable. Therefore, the items offered on our website represent a wide spectrum of opinions on a variety of topics.

Let me assure you that Amazon.com does not support or promote hatred or criminal acts; we do support the right of every individual to make their own purchasing decisions.

Amazon.com believes it is censorship not to sell certain titles because we believe their message is objectionable. Therefore, we'll continue to make controversial works available in the United States and everywhere else, except where they're prohibited by law. We also allow readers, authors, and publishers to express their views freely about these titles and other products we offer on our website. However, Amazon.com doesn't endorse opinions expressed by individual authors, musical artists, or filmmakers.

We value all feedback from our customers, and I thank you again for taking the time to send us your comments about this issue. Although we won't be able to comment further on this topic, we hope you'll allow us to continue to serve you.

Thank you for your recent inquiry. Did I solve your problem?

Thanks for posting this DG.

It sounds like Amazons answer is "It might be wrong but we can probably make a buck on it."

I hope that more and more people find out about this book and that Amazon gets inundated with calls, emails, letters, and other complaints.

"our goal is to provide customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any item they might be seeking." Really!? So they're saying let's make it easier for would be pedophiles to molest kids?

I'm going to write a book titled, "How to locate, capture, and beat the living snot out of twisted sexual deviants who really have no meaningful contribution to society". I wonder if they'll sell that one as well?

I've just crossed Amazon off of my list as a place to buy gifts this Christmas.

[recluse]

Desertgrandma is right to be angry.
Every decent person must be.
This is not a freedom of speech issue.
If child molestors are talking, they are acting. Repeatedly.
And the suggestion that we should vent in the troll cage is the reason why these animals still walk among us.
This must stay in the forefront, not be relegated to the backroom.
If one child suffers, someone must pay.
The world owes the Children of the Secret at least that much.
Love. Closure. And Vengence.

Because this is the Ultimate Evil. It violates Innocence. Destroys lives. And breeds.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by recluse

Desertgrandma is right to be angry.
Every decent person must be.
This is not a freedom of speech issue.
....

Actually it is a freedom of speech issue. People here are mixing up the "talking about it" with the "doing it"

Now I don't necessarily agree that either one is right, but we do live in a society that guarantees freedom of speech.

[kindlekitten]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

As this is the 'rant' thread, I shall post this here, then i shall be gone. I need to seriously think about where I want to spend my time.

Last night, after reading about that piece of trash disguised as a book, I sent an email to Amazon. The following is the reply I received this morning.

Now.....I see a lot of 'hand wringing' here......the "oh my, this is terrible but its a free society and we must have law.

Well, my friends, it is a free society, and we do have "law", for what its worth.

Yet this piece of trash is allowed to publish thru a world wide chain how to sexually penetrate and abuse babies and children, in a "Loving" way You think thats not what pedophelia is?

Of all the crimes committed by humanity, this is the worst. Yet.........what is the concensus? "put him in jail" "He's damaged, treat him"

Oh yeah, thats gonna take care of the problem.

Let me explain something to you all.......you don't "treat" these people. You exterminate them like the vermin they are. I want you all to think, instead of them, of the innocents, and the fear and pain they suffer thruout their lives because these people have a right to live.
I want you to think of the 2 month old here in Arizona who was penetrated, and what this baby went thru, and of all the their children around the world who are abused in this way, because no one has the guts to stand up and say "enough'. Some things are not to be tolerated. Lets clear these scum off the face of the earth".
So.....here is Amazons reply, and I'm very close to flinging my K3 into the trash. I just want to go throw up right now.
I have to think long and hard about how to deal with this in my own mind, because right now......I just want to find a way to get this out of my head.

And I can't.

*SniP*
[/COLOR]

DG, your anger is righteous and justifiable. but please, don't take it out on us. we are not the ones endorsing or encouraging this publication

Originally Posted by dsvick

I did read that one. All of the questions she asks at the end are valid, and I definitely agree that it didn't have to end the way it did. I think it was ignorance on the part of the police that caused the needless death of the dog.

My only contention is that you can't say the dog was not violent or threatening at any point in course of the events that lead up to its death. I agree newfies are one of the most gentle, laid back, easy going breeds there are, but everything has its limits and all it takes is one uneducated person to assume the worst of what they see a giant, black monster dog and treat it in the wrong way at the wrong time and it will go down hill from there.

Hopefully, there will be some serious education classes given to the police involved, and the owner of the dog will hopefully push to get all the answers and to do what they can to make sure this doesn't happen again.

I don't see how you can be remotely ok with this. the dog was in a yard. another dog was there and not upset. there were children in the home, the police didn't even warn them to not be close to the windows until AFTER the shooting. I think this was a sausage fest gone out of control. BillyBob tased her and she didn't go down. immediate testosterone flare up, break out the big guns

Originally Posted by kennyc

Actually it is a freedom of speech issue. People here are mixing up the "talking about it" with the "doing it"

Now I don't necessarily agree that either one is right, but we do live in a society that guarantees freedom of speech.

as much as I defend and agree with free speech, there are times when it is more appropriate to walk away. this would be one of them IMHO