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#76 |
Wizard
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Karma: 13500000
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Device: Boox PB360 etc etc etc
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Bravo Kali
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#77 |
The Introvert
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650 & 505 & 500
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#78 |
Nameless Being
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It boils down to 'fair and reasonable' profit. So, if paperbacks are priced with 20% (say) profit in mind, then e-books should be priced similarly, albeit with a lower total price that is indicative of the net lower cost of producing, packaging and selling an e-book. We (as readers) are not asking for giveaways, rather we're asking that publishers don't increase their profit margin at the expense of the paying public. Time-tested laws of the marketplace have proven that total profit is relatively the same (you make more unit profit on a smaller volume or lower unit profit on a higher volume). That said, more volume is always better because it spreads the risk.
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#79 | ||
Wizard
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Karma: 33602910
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
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I initially asked if the people who are so happy with the instantaneous part start reading the book immediately, which to me seems like the only reason to be happy about the feature. But Kali didn't answer, and neither did you. And the second thing is about the sample of the book. Again, I was just asking for an explanation. Reading a sample to know if you would like the book I understand, but carrying it with you? (You didn't say carry, but Kali did.) |
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#80 | |
Resident Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
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So if we can get Apple to fold as far as eBooks go, then that would be the first step to crumbling the Agency model. |
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#81 | ||||||||||
Resident Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
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We used to get discount codes in email from eBook shops and could actually use them to buy any eBook we wanted. Can we do that now? No. Why not? Because the Agency 5 say we cannot. Bookstores ca put any paper books they want on sale. They can give us a hardcover at 50% off lowering the price lower then the eBook version. But can the eBook version be lowered at all on sale? No. The Agency 5 is out to shaft us. What they are doing is driving more and more people to libraries and the darknet to get eBooks. And once people find out about these resources, sales will plummet. So is a sale of $0 better then a sale of say $9.99? Quote:
I was OK paying $9.99 for an eBook that was out in hardcover that I wanted there and then. I am not OK paying $12.99-$19.99 for an eBook. A book I want now can sell to me for $9.99 and a sale is made or it can sit at $12.99-$19.99 and no sale is made. Which would the publisher & author rather? The sale at a more reasonable price or no sale at a rip-off price? Quote:
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Look at BAEN. They sell eBooks reasonably and give away a lot for free and yet they MAKE A PROFIT WITH EBOOKS. How is that done? They do it by not treating the customer like an idiot. For one, they do not have the high costs associated with DRM. And they price their eBooks reasonably. If you want to get an ARC copy now instead of waiting, you will pay a premium price, but that's it. They know their customers and how to treat them with respect. Give your answers, it looks like you work for the Agency 5 and agree with their tactics. |
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#82 |
Resident Curmudgeon
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Karma: 146391129
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3
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#83 | |
Wizard
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Karma: 7068605
Join Date: Dec 2007
Device: Amazon Kindle Paperwhite, B&N Nook Colro
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HC cost more to produce, it's better binding, better paper, a separate dust jacket, want me to go on? Please. |
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#84 | |
quantum mechanic
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NorCal
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#85 |
Connoisseur
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Device: Kindle Keyboard 3g, Kindle Paperwhite v1
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I get really annoyed when the paper book price is less than the ebook price. I also refuse to spend more than $9.99 on an ebook. I don't know if the 1 star reviews will work or not, but I could see the publishers not liking that at all.
My conspiracy theory is that book publishers would prefer it if ebooks failed and were never heard from again. The longer they can stave off ebook adoption the better for them. They won't need to find ways to address piracy, they won't have to give up the margins on the hardcovers...basically from a publishers viewpoint....I can't think of many reasons to be happy about ebooks. They won't have to worry about authors hiring their own editors and cutting them out of the loop entirely. They are probably happy to stick with paper book sales as long as possible. The 1 star reviews lower the books rating overall....and if people use those ratings...the publishers working so hard to sabotage ebooks are also affecting paper sales. That is why I suspect that the 1-star reviews might have a tiny influence on publishers....but only if people really do use the star ratings to decide which books to buy. I do feel bad for Authors, though to be honest I felt bad for them right from the start as they never seem to get a good deal. I really hope that ebooks take off and become popular enough for authors to self publish profitably and cut out the publishers altogether. |
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#86 | |
quantum mechanic
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![]() Anyway, I would be surprised if at least SOME people in the publishing industry didn't want the ebook wave to just fade away (with some help from them of course). Of course, it's too late - it's been too late for a long time now. Someday, Amazon and the other retailers will push back hard enough (because it's the right business decision for them - we're not talking good vs. evil BS here ![]() The only question is whether it will happen sooner rather than later - especially with the star rating backlash and Amazon's (almost supportive ![]() |
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#87 |
Connoisseur
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Device: Sony PSP, Palm TX
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In the U.S. I think all of this will ultimately be settled by the courts.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20012354-1.html http://seekingalpha.com/article/2087...e-ebook-market http://gizmodo.com/5602646/ct-attorn...-ebook-pricing Obviously I am not talking about the bad ebook ratings at Amazon. I am not even talking about Amazon.com nor Apple (though the journalists tend to put those two company's names in their article's heading). I am talking about the State Attorney Generals will do a bit of investigation and then their focus will shift onto the Agency 5. So far in the U.S. we have Texas and Connecticut, I would be willing to bet New York joins in at some point in the next six months. |
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#88 |
Addict
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle / San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico
Device: Kindle & WiFi Nook & PocketBook IQ
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Supply AND Demand???
With an electronic resource, supply is close to infinity. The cost of replication approximates zero. |
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#89 |
Addict
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Seattle / San Carlos, Sonora, Mexico
Device: Kindle & WiFi Nook & PocketBook IQ
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Lower reviews for high priced items are expected. One has a higher expectation of a BMW than a Hyundai.
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#90 | |||||||
Curmudgeon
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Device: PRS-505
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Retailers of T-shirts can "hack n' slash" the prices of their T-shirts. Retailers of desk chairs can "hack n' slash" the prices of their desk chairs. And, more germane to our discussion, retailers of pbooks can "hack n' slash" the prices of their pbooks. But you're cool with retailers being forbidden to do exactly the same thing with ebooks? Quote:
That's not true, and you've been here long enough to know it's not true. That's not true of what people want, and it's not true of what people do. Trying to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best. Readers want the free market to control book pricing. For pbooks, it does; for ebooks, the cabal won't let it. I'm afraid I'm too much of a capitalist to think that centralized, single-point control of the book market is a good thing. And yes, many readers do think that temporary use of an electronic file over which they have no control and very few rights is worth less to them than permanent ownership of a physical book, and want to pay accordingly. This is somehow surprising? Quote:
If I were to buy a DRM-locked ebook, I couldn't read it on whichever reading device I wanted. I couldn't let my mother-in-law read it. I couldn't sell it to a used bookstore when I didn't want it anymore. I couldn't give it to the church sale or the charity book table or the library. Yes, if I broke the DRM, I could do some of those things, though still far from all. But we're talking the legal and cabal-intended uses of the book, not what one could do otherwise. The only thing you listed that might be an advantage is sending it to some random location ... but I have more books than I have time to read loaded on my ebook reader already, so I feel no need to buy any additional ones at random times. If I buy a pbook that sucks, at the very least I can give it to some relative who might like it, and earn a few brownie points that might some day turn into them giving me a better book. With an ebook, I can't even do that. Quote:
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Just for starters, the distributors (or the big chain stores the publishers sell direct to) get a minimum 50% discount. So that's $12.50 (at least) down the drain right there. Then there's the price of printing those books, shipping them hither and yon, and eventually having them hauled to the recycler. Remember, too, the fact that 1 out of 2 (or more) books will be returned, unsold, to the publisher, to be remaindered for a buck apiece or just plain junked if even the remainder stores don't want them. So when you factor in discounts, the cost of goods sold, returns, and so on, that publisher might be getting only a few dollars for that hardcover, with a small percentage of that going to the author. (if we believe Slate's figures, the publisher may be getting as little as a dollar when all is said and done) If they make $3 from a $10 epub, the possibility exists, quite strongly, that the publisher and the author are pulling in more money, not less, from that book. Remember one thing about people who buy books: Those of us who buy them by the armload, like MobileRead members, are in the minority. Books are our primary recreation. For most people, on the other hand, they're distinctly secondary. They weigh the purchase of a book against many other forms of entertainment, such as buying movie tickets, a DVD, a video game, or just chilling out on the couch and watching TV. For MR members, we buy books at the expense of other books (if I buy Book A, I won't have that time to read Book B). Our book purchase are constrained by our available time. For average people, their book purchases are constrained by their available budget -- if a book is cheaper than the alternatives, they're more likely to buy the book. Cut your $25 book to $10, and you may very well sell 2.5x as many of them. If the profit is exactly the same as it is with a pbook, but you're selling two and a half times as many, you're not just going to win, you're going to kick donkeys. Which is what Baen has figured out. And O'Reilly has figured out. And a bunch of other publishers have figured out, especially the indies. Which is what has happened to my disposable income. They dispose of it for me. The cabal ... doesn't. Quote:
If so, why do publishers print so many of them? Why do so many books appear only as MM paperbacks? Why do authors seem quite content to get those royalties? And why is selling an ebook for the price of a pbook count as a "massive price break" for anyone who doesn't think that an ebook, with all its restrictions and limitations, shouldn't sell for more than a pbook that is so much more usable? Quote:
It seems to be working quite well, from the look of my PayPal account. Baen got me again. And I'm not caught up with the last batch yet! Plus there's what happened at O'Reilly's 2-for-1 sale ... ouch. Let's not even go into what authors who promote their books here on MR have done; when someone sells a book at impulse-buy prices, I'll buy it on impulse even if I don't know when I'll be able to get to reading it. I remember the old Gramercy Park Clothes commercials. Particularly, I remember "We'd rather sell a million suits at a buck profit than one suit at a million profit." As I understand it, they were quite successful. Publishers and their million-dollar suits, so to speak, might do well to take a look at that tactic. If someone sells me ten books at a dollar profit or one book at a ten dollar profit, they're making the same ... and I'm a lot more likely to buy ten books. |
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