Stars fall in Amazon protest about ebook prices

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by thinkpadx

Read this Diesel article about the take on the agency model:
http://blog.diesel-ebooks.com/?p=704

I'm still having a hard time to see how the Agency model benefits the end customer. This is a hard sell that hasn't gone well for the publishers.

http://blog.diesel-ebooks.com/?p=161

And the Agency 5 are no longer sold in Mobipocket format. So if that's your format of choice and you do not strip DRM/format convert, you are well and truly screwed. How is this Agency model good for the consumer? None of the arguments in favor of it make any sense and are in fact just a load of BS.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

The cost of paper, printing, and delivery is not as big of an expense as the cost of acquiring the manuscript, editing it, proofreading it, copyediting it, creating the cover artwork. All of those costs also apply to the e-book. Ebooks still cost money to produce.

But how much different would the price be if we took out the costs of paper/ink, printing, shipping, warehousing, & selling at a store like Borders or B&N? Also, the other issue that is a really big deal is that the paper books can be discounted or put on sale. the eBooks from the Agency 5 cannot. They have a set price and that set price is fixed. They is why the paper books are cheaper even when the eBook is priced exactly the same retail price.

So take out the extra costs involved in the paper editions. Take off the restrictions on discounts/sales. Make it so the same day a cheaper rpice paper copy is released, the price of the eBook drops the very same day at the very same time. Do this and you may find people not so unhappy if the price was a little higher then they want, but in line with reasonable.

[thinkpad]

Originally Posted by texasnightowl

My current aggravation is with Macmillan/St. Martin's. I've been wanting to pick up an ebook copy of Laurie R. King's "The Beekeeper's Apprentice" but the publisher has it priced at $9.99. The catch? The paperback was published originally 14 years ago! at a cover price of $6.99! I can understand the most recent addition to the series being $9.99 or even $12.99, but it really bugs me that they are trying to charge $9.99 for a 14 year old book!

This is a problem. Glad it was brought up.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by El_Nino_Brian

I don't understand all this commotion about the prices of e-books. We the readers, the consumers, drive the market, not Amazon. If we're not happy about e-book prices from Amazon, there's only one clear thing to do: BOYCOTT AMAZON. After all, there are thousands and thousands of books yet to appreciated and read on Project Gutenberg. Put your money where you mouth is and do something about it.

Actually, the best solution is not to boycott Amazon. People you are forgetting who caused this Agency model to happen... APPLE!!! Apple is at fault. The thing to do is boycott buying of any eBooks from Apple be they via iBooks or as an app. Buy none. Don't even download an eBook from Apple if it is free. Let Apple know that they cannot get away with this and no sales of eBooks would do it. If nobody ever bought another eBook from Apple, Apple would hopefully get the message.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MikeFromHC

The difference in price between a paperback and a hard back should be minimal if this is the case, yet a paperback is frequently less than 1/3 the cost of the hard bound.
Either the margin on the hard back is huge or there is a big difference in printing, paper, and transportation between the two.

The perceived value of a hardcover is greater so the price is higher.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by astra

I might add it to my favourite quotes

Feel free to add it to your favorite quotes and thank you for that.

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Publishers don't give a damn about what's best for the reader. They only care what they perceive as what's best for their wallets. Reading a good book should be a good experience. But the publishers do not care. They just want to make as much money as they can.

Yes, exactly, and that's their job -- maximizing shareholder returns, balancing current and future value. They do care about what's best for the reader ... provided it entices them to be a customer who gives the publisher more revenue at attractive margins.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by texasnightowl

THIS. And when e-book versions of older books are priced at or higher than the price of a new book.

My current aggravation is with Macmillan/St. Martin's. I've been wanting to pick up an ebook copy of Laurie R. King's "The Beekeeper's Apprentice" but the publisher has it priced at $9.99. The catch? The paperback was published originally 14 years ago! at a cover price of $6.99! I can understand the most recent addition to the series being $9.99 or even $12.99, but it really bugs me that they are trying to charge $9.99 for a 14 year old book! The Agency 5 can kiss my xyz. I picked up a used copy of the book which means neither author nor publisher got any money from me.

What about books that are more than FIFTY years old? I want The Dollmaker, by Harriette Arnow (published 1954), which is $13.99 as an e-book (about $11 for trade paperback). I want The Best of Everything, by Rona Jaffe (published 1958), which is $12.99 as an e-book (on sale for $6 for paperback at Amazon). I want Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand (published 1957), which is a whopping $18.99 as an e-book (about $10 for paperback).

This is completely insane pricing.

[thrawn_aj]

They can call it the Agency model all they want - price-fixing is all it is. BS by any other name ...

@JSWolf - completely agreed that Amazon is not to blame for this. In fact, they've fought tooth and nail against it. Apple is the culprit. I've bought from iTunes before - no more. And I wouldn't download an iBook if they had one for free (not that they would - I've heard that the word "free" raises Jobs' systolic by 2 full points ).

I would also encourage the angry readers to send a barrage of mail and emails to the publishers instead of knocking down the star ratings of authors (though I sympathize - the big name authors certainly have enough clout with their publishers to do something about this. It is not the publisher's jobs to set retail prices - they need to know their place).

[Piper_]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Penalizing a specific book title with a one-star review at one vendor's website because you don't like the pricing policies of the publisher for all its books and all its vendors ... sounds ineffectual to me.

I don't know if it's ineffectual, but I don't like that it skews the ratings I'd like to use as a guide to the quality of the book, especially since that review remains to skew things, even if the price drops.

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

I am one of those consumers who would never have bought an ereader had I believed ebooks cost $15 or more -- the $10 "ceiling" promise was the assurance I needed to take the plunge.

So true for so many, judging from the feedback. I think it's safe to say Amazon put a lot of study into what price points would optimize the growth and sales of ebooks. (A study at the beginning of this year showed that lower prices were one of if not the biggest attractions a focus group gave for choosing ebooks.)

They were on a great roll, then got screwed by the Agency 5 this spring.

I know they hate it, and their eagerness to fight it is why they've officially stated that they think reviewing books based on price is fine, and will not remove those reviews.

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Yes, exactly, and that's their job -- maximizing shareholder returns, balancing current and future value. They do care about what's best for the reader ... provided it entices them to be a customer who gives the publisher more revenue at attractive margins.

True, but of course, that doesn't mean they are making smart business decisions long-term, or even short term.

Companies do misjudge. What's shocking to me is that publishers have the benefit of observing the pitfalls the music companies made, and yet they are stepping right into them themselves.

I cannot help but believe that what this is all about is that the publishers are luddites, stubbornly resistant to adapting their models to the current terrain.

I think they hope that setting ebook prices high will reduce the sales of e-readers and thus the popularity of ebooks. As you said, people do consider the lower cost of the ebooks when buying an ereader. I think most count that as an investment that will be returned on savings per book.

(I know many of us feel that the benefits of ebooks make it worth it, but that impression isn't nearly so strong for those who are happily reading books now. Some would still go the e-route, for the luxury. Many others wouldn't - especially in this economy.)

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, the best solution is not to boycott Amazon. People you are forgetting who caused this Agency model to happen... APPLE!!! Apple is at fault. The thing to do is boycott buying of any eBooks from Apple be they via iBooks or as an app. Buy none. Don't even download an eBook from Apple if it is free. Let Apple know that they cannot get away with this and no sales of eBooks would do it. If nobody ever bought another eBook from Apple, Apple would hopefully get the message.

If you think the solution is to boycott Apple then the BPH's love you. If you continue to buy the BPH products and blame Apple then you're part of the problem. If you disagree with what the big publishing houses are doing then the best solution is to stop paying them.

[catsittingstill]

Personally, I think e-books ought to be a couple of dollars cheaper than the cheapest paper version. But I have a personal price-point inflection at 9.99--for me to spend more than that on a e-book it has to be something I'd buy in hardcover in paper.

Look, e-books obviously cost less to produce than paper books--otherwise you'd be able to buy journals (blank books) for free, right? Unless the special maneuvers to convert from the electronic file for the typesetter to the electronic file for the book (which would be what, putting it through calibre?) are some how more expensive--per copy--than a journal, which seems damned unlikely.

So the cost for print books should be E (amount for all the editing, and overhead and art and stuff) plus J (the amount for the blank book and distribution and so on) plus Pp (the profit for the publisher on the print book).

And the cost for e-books should be E plus x (the tiny amount for putting it through calibre or whatever conversion program they're using) plus Pe (the profit for the publisher on the e-book.)

When E + J + Pp is less than or equal to E + x + Pe when I know J is considerable... I begin to suspect that Pe is much bigger than Pp. Like, to to tune of 2$ or 2.50$ on an 8$ paperback. And I don't mind publishers making a profit. But I DO mind publishers making a much bigger profit off me than they do off my brother who buys paper. I don't deserve to be gouged.

And once a company has tried to gouge me, even the paper book looses its luster. Manybooks.net has lots of good books for free; I don't actually need to read _Blameless_. Maybe I'll get around to reading it once the price has dropped to something reasonable...but I have a mind like a steel sieve, so maybe I'll have forgotten and they will never sell _Blameless_ to me. It's not really much skin off my nose.

Aside from the whole resenting being gouged thing.

[JeremyR]

The thing is, it seems to me that e-book costs are basically fixed. That is, the writing, editing proofing really only need to be done once, and it doesn't really matter if the book is a bestseller or a something 50 people will buy.

I guess bestsellers do have more professional editing and such, but in either case, the money spent on producing them is recouped after a fixed point. Anything after that is pure profit for the author/publisher.

Anyway, getting to my point, what really irks me is that because of tax reasons, a lot of publishers let books go out of print. But even though they were presumably happy with the original sales run, and made their money back, they now decide to charge full price (or more) for the e-book version. Which as far as I know, has no tax liabilities like keeping a warehouse full of books does.

[Kali Yuga]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One of the major issues besides the price is that there the Agency Model will not allow sales or discounts.

To be more precise, the agency model does not allow retailers to hack n' slash prices at will, e.g. no specific retailer has a price advantage. The publishers can discount any book they like, at any time, for any reason. And I might add, they often do -- e.g. NYT Bestsellers, plus prices do decrease, there's tiered pricing based on how long the book is out etc.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Also, the publishers fail to realize something important. People who want the eBook DO NOT WANT the hardcover. They do not want to pay hardcover price.

No, what people want is to pay next to nothing, as they curse at the people who are risking their money to get the work to the public in a presentable fashion.

However, the reality is that hardcovers are not more expensive because they cost more to produce. The premium price is actually due to the mechanics of supply and demand; the different form is merely a thin veneer on this process. If you want the book as soon as it's released, you pay a premium for that -- and there is absolutely no reason why this dynamic should change just because the product is digital instead of physical.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Also, according to the terms and conditions, the eBook has less going for it the then pBook and thus should be priced less due to these restrictions.

No, it doesn't. It has a different set of abilities and restrictions than paper.

You can't duplicate a paper book for free, instantaneously, at no cost; you can't get a paper book sent to you instantly in any location you have an Internet connection; etc etc. Paper has its own set of restrictions that are built into the medium itself.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

All of this nonsense undermines the value of an eBook vs a pBook. So why are we paying the same or more? Where is the value in that?

Because in a medium where supply is essentially unlimited, you're paying based on demand, value, industry norms and the like. Cost merely sets the ground floor for the price.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

You have a book out in hardcover that say goes got $25. the eBook is priced at say $14.99. The think is, would you rather have say 5 sales of the eBook at $14.99 for a grand total of $74.95 or say 10 sales of the eBook at $9.99 for 99.90?

That depends entirely on the distribution of revenues and the margins.

If the publisher is making $10 from the $25 hardcover, and $3 from the $10 ebook, they need to sell 3.3 times as many copies just to break even. And of course, in the process you are not merely giving consumers a massive price break, you're cheapening the value of your product and giving authors a much lower royalty per book.

As is the case in most businesses, Margins > Volume. If you don't believe me, start your own ebook publishing business with cut-rate prices and let us know how it works for you.

[corona]

Originally Posted by Fabe

...It comes down to what the market will bear.

John D. Rockefeller lives!