LCD vs. e-ink

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Torrent sites. I'm pretty sure that that was where I first heard the term. You can find user manuals for almost anything. As they are usually pdf, I didn't realize that there are so many formats for ebooks until I went looking for information on readers. I also didn't really think of them as books.

Interesting. Yes, you can find manuals for almost anything, and they'll be PDF files. The days are long past when hardware or software vendors included printed manuals - there's a PDF on the CD.

I found out about the format diversity early on, as I discovered I needed five different viewers on my PDA to handle all of the content - converted HTML, MobiPocket, eReader, PDF, Word/RTF, and several variants of plain text. The good part was that I could read pretty much anything. The bad part was that I had to remember what material was in what format, viewed by what program. I've been hoping the industry would converge on a single format ever since, but we aren't quite there.

My first big expense was when I was still a bachelor student 5 years ago, and as my first laptop that brought the joy of not having to share the family desktop with my two brothers anymore. Since then, the only one that might be called a bad choice was the netbook, since it turns out that I prefer to carry around a bigger weight in order to look at a bigger screen (notice my choice of ereader). I still don't regret it, since I gave it to my mother after a year of less than occasional use, and she loves it.

Okay. I passed on the earliest netbooks for the same reason - I wanted a larger screen. 7" would be fine for reading most books, but a netbook is a multi-function device, and 7" wasn't large enough for many of the other functions.

When I looked at the original ASUS eee, I wished for the same device in the form factor of the canceled Palm Foleo project, with a 10" screen. These days, it's a different issue: I want the 10" screen, but am fine with a flavor of Linux, and want the flash-drive. I don't need Windows or a 160GB internal micro hard drive. No one made exactly what I was looking for the last time I looked. I'm starting to thinks an Android based tablet with an external bluetooth keyboard might be the best solution.

I also think that I will still buy pbooks, and I look forward to reading old classics, especially the books that I read when I was younger. Now I’ll read them in the original language.

I will certainly still buy pbooks - too much of what I read isn't suitable for ebook publication, like "coffee table" volumes on art, architecture, and design.

Thanks!

You're welcome.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by jeffcobb

Gimme battery life anyday. If my ebook readers featured the cr@ppy battery life of, say everything else LCD-driven, I would not own one. I love the fact that I can read on it every day for hours on end and charge it once a week. If only my phone/laptop/etc did that. I know, the others have a lot more going on but at the end of the day, e-ink is not the battery-suck that basically everything else is.

Battery life is one of the major selling points for eInk based devices.

Personally, I don't care. I've been conditioned by things like digital cameras, PDAs, cell phones and laptops to charge on a daily basis to avoid potential problems, and do so as a matter of reflex. Extended battery life is a feature if I expect to be in a situation where I can't charge for an extended period, but for the most part, that doesn't happen.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Sonist

I am not certain that demoing a product for a few minutes in the store is the best way to select a reader.

I've had an eInk reader for a while now, and a couple of months ago I got an iPad. At first, I enjoyed reading on the iPad: the presentation of the page within iBooks is very pleasant, I have always preferred touch to buttons, and PDFs are a bit easier to maneuver in on the faster iPad, than on the Kindle DX (or god forbid, on the Kindle 2).

But after about 6 weeks of reading on the iPad on average 2-4 hours a night, I noticed that it started affecting my eyes. Driving at night was a little fuzzier all of a sudden.

So I ordered Kindle DX Graphites for myself and my significant other to replace the gen 2 Kindles we had, and now I am convinced that for regular reading, LCD is simply not as good as eInk.

I see in in store demo as the last step in the process.

The first step is deciding you want a particular kind of device. The second is doing the research to find out what makes/models of those devices exist. The third is to narrow the selection by defining your particular requirements for such a device. The last step is the in-store demo, to actually hold the possible choices in your hands and see how they look/feel/work in actual use, before choosing one.

It doesn't guarantee you'll make the right choice, and as you discovered after extended use, a different class of device worked better for you, but if you don't do your homework beforehand, you are far more likely to make the wrong choice.
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Dennis a

[cjottawa]

I was at my work computer yesterday, pondering the merits of LCD versus e-ink.

I wonder if the reason LCD's get a bad rap for "eye-strain" is because we often scroll, pan, zoom or otherwise look at MOVING images on LCD's.

If you try reading a book on an LCD, without video, without "scrolling," it's much less tiring on the eyes.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I've been hoping the industry would converge on a single format ever since, but we aren't quite there.

I think that I would prefer a universal viewer to a universal format. And I really think that the publishers could get a large variety of prices based on the complexity of the format. For the cheap buyers there would be txt, and then the prices can increase with format. I think that I would really pay allot to see a digital format masterpiece that can rival the one in "House of Leaves".

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

7" would be fine for reading most books, but a netbook is a multi-function device, and 7" wasn't large enough for many of the other functions.

I think that the biggest annoyance was the horizontal scrolling. I ended up trying to zoom out as much as possible just to get the whole line of text on the screen.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by cjottawa

If you try reading a book on an LCD, without video, without "scrolling," it's much less tiring on the eyes.

Actually, for me it is easier with scrolling, as I can get the line that I am reading to be the one at the top. I can even ignore what happens with the rest of the screen.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I think that I would prefer a universal viewer to a universal format. And I really think that the publishers could get a large variety of prices based on the complexity of the format. For the cheap buyers there would be txt, and then the prices can increase with format. I think that I would really pay allot to see a digital format masterpiece that can rival the one in "House of Leaves".

I don't see a universal viewer happening. The closest I can think of at the moment is the open source FBReader application, cross-platform, and available for Windows and Linux, with a Java version for other things.

It views ePub, Mobipocket, Plucker, CHM, and an assortment of other things, but does not provide the support for the various formats available in a dedicated viewer, and it doesn't do PDFs. It works well enough for me, as it means I can view my Plucker documents on my Windows desktop, and Linux notebook as well as my PDA, but while it displays ePub and Mobi files, some features aren't supported. (And the Java version does not yet support all the formats viewed by the original.)

I think that the biggest annoyance was the horizontal scrolling. I ended up trying to zoom out as much as possible just to get the whole line of text on the screen.

That's why while I can view PDFs on my PDA, I don't unless there's no other option. Sideways scrolling to read a full line is painful, and while the PDA viewer can reflow text if the PDF is tagged for it, the PDFs I might want to view on it don't have that tagging.
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Dennis

[The Terminator]

E-ink rocks i have a KOBO and can read forever on it without my eyes getting sore

[shanghaichica]

I've never been comfortable reading on LCD screens for long periods of time. I get a headache after about 50 mins. The idea of reading a book on a computer/laptop screen is unbearable to me, which is why i've never done it. I have to read a lot of PDFs for work and I always prefer to print them out rather than read them on my laptop. I've read a few books on my iphone, but I never really took to reading on there as I have with my e-ink devices.

[lack]

Originally Posted by shanghaichica

I've read a few books on my iphone, but I never really took to reading on there as I have with my e-ink devices.

I am interested with the former though, how was it? Reading on iPhone? Did you not experience the same headache as your plain LCD monitor?

I had my eink devices for two days, and cranking 3 hours reading non stop which is already 1 hours ahead from my record in reading in LCD monitor, no fatigue in my eyes but I do experience slight blurry vision and lost focus which is easily amendable after couple minutes resting my eyes.

The quest for genuine reason on why LCD is straining (my) eyes only when reading remains though..

One question to all of those saying LCD gives them headaches, do you adjust its brightness to the ambient lighting in your environment? And if you had, did it alleviate the symptoms at all?

[astra]

Originally Posted by lack

One question to all of those saying LCD gives them headaches, do you adjust its brightness to the ambient lighting in your environment? And if you had, did it alleviate the symptoms at all?

See? This is the problem. One got to jump through hoops to alleviate discomfort. Alleviate is the key word. Adjusting brightness and contrast does help as well as having an adequate ambient light. However, it only alleviates eyestrain. It doesn't remove it completely. Most of the users who claim they don't have any LCD related eyestrain issues can use any LCD with ambient light or in a complete darkness and they feel fine. No eye strain. Then there is another group of users who got to spend time and energy on finding the best settings, the best conditions etc. Why? Why fight against nature? Your eyes get tired when reading off of LCD? Forget about it and use eInk. Enjoy life. Don't try to prove anyone anything. Just be yourself.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."

— Dr. Seuss

and vice versa. You don't feel tired when you read off of LCD screen? Kewl! Be happy and leave those miserable curs alone to play with silly eInk toys.

For the life of me I don't understand why we discuss it in the first place. We use what we like. Why ask somebody else a question such as: Does reading off of LCD screen tire your eyes? Then base your decision based on their replies.
"Listen" to your own eyes. You feel comfortable with LCD? Use it. No? Use eInk.

[Maggie Leung]

Originally Posted by astra

For the life of me I don't understand why we discuss it in the first place. We use what we like. Why ask somebody else a question such as: Does reading off of LCD screen tire your eyes? Then base your decision based on their replies.
"Listen" to your own eyes.

I think some people are just curious about others' experiences, not necessarily buying based on the answers.

I agree that it makes no sense to base your decision on others' eyes, just as it makes no sense to tell people that LCD will tire their eyes. Everyone's eyesight is different.

[lack]

wups. Did I just start another streak?

In my defend, I was just curious to finding the reason so I wanted to gather other's opinion. Cause both parties' facts are indisputable and I wanted to find a common middle ground.

I agree that eink's no-adjusting approach easier and more natural though.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by astra

Then there is another group of users who got to spend time and energy on finding the best settings, the best conditions etc. Why? Why fight against nature? Your eyes get tired when reading off of LCD? Forget about it and use eInk. Enjoy life. Don't try to prove anyone anything. Just be yourself.

I think that it is human nature to do that. They want to be able to do what the others are doing, read off LCD. And they can hope that someone who had the same problem has found a solution.

I don't have problems with LCD screens, but I do keep the brightness low. I find it more comfortable that way. People that pass by my desk keep asking me if I see anything on the screen. I also bring my face closer to the screen when I have to read off of it for more than 10 minutes. And I never read in the dark.

[stonetools]

Dunno if this has been mentioned yet but the Night display (white letters on black background) is easier on the eyes , in my experience. Hope this helps.