Massive wave of ebook piracy?

[kyteflyer]

Originally Posted by Xanthe

I'm sure that for authors like Rowling ...

I'd say you're right, but in support of the argument that there is potential for sales from downloaded illegal copies: I downloaded the Harry Potter series and as a result of that (I was VERY dubious about whether I would like them) I bought hard copies of each book... I've done that with many more, as well.

Its good that authors like Cory Doctorow actually get it, and make ebooks available so you get a good copy instead of some of the rubbish that's about. That said, I've never much got into his stuff Must change that.

[fairy_dreams]

A court ruling just closed down Limewire (a prime site for music pirating) and I suspect that other major torrent sites will follow the same fate.

Ebook piracy will always continue (e-readers are making it more popular), but perhaps this will be curtailed?

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by fairy_dreams

A court ruling just closed down Limewire (a prime site for music pirating) and I suspect that other major torrent sites will follow the same fate.

Ebook piracy will always continue (e-readers are making it more popular), but perhaps this will be curtailed?

Sites get closed and others open, just like a Hydra.

The way ahead is to attract the frustrated ebook buyers who are restricted from buying particular ebooks because of where they reside, cannot get the right ebook format and cannot convert due to DRM, or refuse to pay exorbitant prices.

Publishers need to adjust their distribution and sales models to suit the digital age. They carp about piracy and the rise thereof but continue to encourage it by not doing a damn thing to entice those "wayward" potential purchasers back to buying their product.

[Richey79]

LimeWire being shut down is a pretty insignificant development. It was outdated technology, and entirely different from relatively modern BitTorrent tech (itself due to soon be replaced by more modern systems), particularly 'magnet links.' Of course, it sets a legal precedent, but the anti-copyright groups have similar minor victories in court, ACTA has been watered down significantly - all these things tend to even each other out.

Was I previously trying to claim that the availability of piratable materials hasn't cost publishers/authors a single sale they otherwise would have had? - It's a question that I find much less interesting than that of why the copyright protection bodies haven't been able to prove any revenue losses incurred as a result of piracy. Surely, if publishers of copyrighted materials are suffering such significant losses, with their resources it should have been easy to do so.

We're left with the quite possible premise that people are spending the same amount on books/music/films as they would have before, but consume some extra that they are now able to get for free. Or, they spend more than they would have because they are able to find the work of more artists who they like. There have been several studies that have suggested this to be the case, but not enough have been conducted to draw any certain conclusions. These still represent better data than the pro-copyright bodies have been able to bring to the table.

Some (many?) on MR will think that these customers should not consume the extra materials that they take without permission. That is a matter for that individual's moral conscience. Like language, the law is a living, mutable thing. Like language, it is changing as a result of usage by the people at large, not certain politicians who are paid sums of money by the entertainment industry.

I would suggest that the younger generation have a different attitude to whether using these technologies is acceptable than the older one. Will we face a society in which the majority disregard those laws that don't suit them as this group grows to maturity? Sounds unlikely, surely?

[monkeyluis]

I had an idea I'd like to see. Not sure if anyone else thought of this. But just as DVDs & blurays now have a digital copy why can't books have this same thing. I'd especially love to see it for non-fiction. I read a lot of science & history, but as you know this books are not always small. So to also have a digital copy I can download or copy over would be great.

Everyone is right though publishers & any other media distributor need to move a lot faster to moving to a digital business model or they'll continue to lose money.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Just visitin'...

Originally Posted by Richey79

Was I previously trying to claim that the availability of piratable materials hasn't cost publishers/authors a single sale they otherwise would have had? - It's a question that I find much less interesting than that of why the copyright protection bodies haven't been able to prove any revenue losses incurred as a result of piracy. Surely, if publishers of copyrighted materials are suffering such significant losses, with their resources it should have been easy to do so.

Their "resources" haven't managed to provide clean digital copies of old works, consistent pricing, global access, or workable DRM systems. If they can't do that, how likely are they to be able to provide accurate loss figures of digital goods that zip around the interwebs faster than any other system can keep track?

But just because they can't provide figures... that doesn't mean there is no loss. Fact is, right now nobody's figures are even close to accurate, and I'm convinced many figures on both sides are made up, since there's no way to disprove them.

(I know, I know... Smek! Okay, I'm gone.)

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

How would you know if you liked something if you never read it?

Ummmm... The same way you "know" if you like some-OTHER-thing before you buy it. Like deciding whether to see a movie in the theater (rather than waiting for the DVD/Blu-Ray/legal-download/"Pirate"-download/whatever). Or deciding which car to buy before you have a chance to live with it for months. Or deciding which of several job offers to accept, when you have limited information about the workplace congeniality and business prospects of the various potential employers.

Many things in life are uncertain. You already have many, many avenues available to help reduce uncertainty (reviews, word-of-mouth, online information and opinion, etc.). I see no inherent reason why paying for a book should necessarily be any different from any of those other uncertain choices. It's quite straight-forward: spend as much (or as little) effort on reducing your risk as makes sense to you, then make your choice and either consume-and-pay or don't-consume-and-don't-pay.

Why was this a hard question?

Xenophon

[GA Russell]

This thread is so long, I need to reread the OP to remember what the point was!

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

Ummmm... The same way you "know" if you like some-OTHER-thing before you buy it. Like deciding whether to see a movie in the theater (rather than waiting for the DVD/Blu-Ray/legal-download/"Pirate"-download/whatever). Or deciding which car to buy before you have a chance to live with it for months. Or deciding which of several job offers to accept, when you have limited information about the workplace congeniality and business prospects of the various potential employers.

Many things in life are uncertain. You already have many, many avenues available to help reduce uncertainty (reviews, word-of-mouth, online information and opinion, etc.). I see no inherent reason why paying for a book should necessarily be any different from any of those other uncertain choices. It's quite straight-forward: spend as much (or as little) effort on reducing your risk as makes sense to you, then make your choice and either consume-and-pay or don't-consume-and-don't-pay.

Why was this a hard question?

Xenophon

Why would anyone look for reviews of a book or writer they had never heard of before?

[Ravensknight]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Why would anyone look for reviews of a book or writer they had never heard of before?

please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Cause if you aren't, what kind of reader are you? If I like Author X, and my friend likes Author X, and we hang out at Author X fansite, and someone there says "golly gee willikers, if you like Author X, I just read a book by Author A and wow wheee, it was awesome and you might like it too" I'd go straight over to
Amazon to check out a synopsis and read reviews.

The reason we look for the unknown is to EXPLORE and make it KNOWN to us. It is the sign of a good reader.

[and if you were being sarcastic, my apologies, kind of ]

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Ravensknight

please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Cause if you aren't, what kind of reader are you? If I like Author X, and my friend likes Author X, and we hang out at Author X fansite, and someone there says "golly gee willikers, if you like Author X, I just read a book by Author A and wow wheee, it was awesome and you might like it too" I'd go straight over to
Amazon to check out a synopsis and read reviews.

The reason we look for the unknown is to EXPLORE and make it KNOWN to us. It is the sign of a good reader.

[and if you were being sarcastic, my apologies, kind of ]

But that would be for books that you had heard of, or been told you might like, not books you hadn't heard of before. If you saw a book you had never heard of that said click here for free download would you really go looking for reviews of it or just download it and flick through it yourself?

If it was a DVD or something that would take a few hours to download maybe you would, but something that takes a few seconds? You could always go back and look for reviews if you decided you actually wanted to read it. Then once you read it you could decide whether it was good enough to make you want to read something else by that writer, maybe even send them some Paypal money like Xenophon suggests if they are easy to find.

But none of that would happen if you didn't download it first. They would just stay yet another writer that you had never heard of before. You would never buy any of their books, they would never make it onto your must read list, you would never tell any of your friends about them.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But that would be for books that you had heard of, or been told you might like, not books you hadn't heard of before. If you saw a book you had never heard of that said click here for free download would you really go looking for reviews of it or just download it and flick through it yourself?

I definitely would. If the book is not obvious crap it takes maybe at least 50 pages to see if it is any good and I do not want to wast that time. So I will read reviews or ask friends. I most probably would not download something free or bother to read reviews since I have so many unread good books available already.

[Sil_liS]

Does everybody here have friends who like all the same books? I mean I loved "hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy", but most of my friends found it strange.

[DuncanWatson]

Originally Posted by Logseman

I concurr. If I'm paying for them, I will not allow my books/movies/music to be taken away from me at anyone's leisure but mine.

+2, I didn't buy a Kindle because of their "issue" with this. Take away my books after 30 days is going to make me furious. That kind of crap is the kind of stuff that drives one to DDOS attacks.

[Xenophon]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But that would be for books that you had heard of, or been told you might like, not books you hadn't heard of before. If you saw a book you had never heard of that said click here for free download would you really go looking for reviews of it or just download it and flick through it yourself?

If it was a DVD or something that would take a few hours to download maybe you would, but something that takes a few seconds? You could always go back and look for reviews if you decided you actually wanted to read it. Then once you read it you could decide whether it was good enough to make you want to read something else by that writer, maybe even send them some Paypal money like Xenophon suggests if they are easy to find.

But none of that would happen if you didn't download it first. They would just stay yet another writer that you had never heard of before. You would never buy any of their books, they would never make it onto your must read list, you would never tell any of your friends about them.

My personal choice is to download only those things I expect that I will be interested in.* This means that I don't just download every freebie I encounter. My reasoning for this is that I'd rather have my to-read queue filled with books (mostly eBooks) that I have reason to expect that I will like. That torrent of "everything from Project Gutenberg" (for example) is of no interest to me. I can download PG books any time I want; why bother downloading the ones that have not yet caught my interest.

As for other books, well... None of those stages I suggest would happen if I didn't get the book somehow-or-other. It certainly seems to me that obscurity is the single biggest problem for a mid-list author; doubly so for beginners. But my time to read is limited. I'd rather spend that time on books I'll enjoy. So I look for reviews (or whatever) only if something about the book catches my fancy somehow.

I guess this means that the big cost for me isn't the download time, or even the cost of the eBook (assuming semi-sane pricing!), but rather the reading time (and the risk-reduction "what can I find out about this book/author/series/whatever" time). So I use word-of-mouth, reviews, and other sources to find books that are worth spending my reading time on.

As with all such opinions, your mileage may vary. Your circumstances may vary. Your value function and choices may vary. Void where prohibited. Dolphin safe and cholesterol free. No trees were killed in production of this message...

Xenophon
*I also choose to download only legitimate eBooks. Um... eBooks that are either freely available (PD, or free from the author, or free from the publisher, or...) or that I pay for. Again, YMMV, etc. But I encourage you to send money in the direction of authors and publishers who produce books that you like. Money talks — make it give YOUR message when it does.