Excessive profanity in books - Page 13

doreenjoy · 10-28-2010, 06:55 AM

More than excessive profanity, excessive drinking of alcohol bothers me in novels.

I recently read a book with Navy SEAL characters, and those men drank far too much for a group with access to firearms. I kept waiting for one of them to shoot himself in the foot.

kindlekitten · 10-28-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

More than excessive profanity, excessive drinking of alcohol bothers me in novels.

I recently read a book with Navy SEAL characters, and those men drank far too much for a group with access to firearms. I kept waiting for one of them to shoot himself in the foot.

ever spent much time around the military?

doreenjoy · 10-28-2010, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kindlekitten

ever spent much time around the military?

No, and now I'm scared to!

Seanette · 10-28-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwen Morse

I agree.

Hal Sparks (a comedian) does a really funny (to me, anyway) routine about switching around the meaning of "balls" and err...the "p" word

.

Basically, he suggests folks should use the "p" word to indicate toughness, because female genitals are tough (he references giving birth and menstruation as signs of toughness).

Balls should represent weakness, because of how fragile they are (because if you even tap them, the man ends up rolling on the floor in pain).

Funny, funny stuff if you don't mind profanity from a comedian.

Being female, I agree with his point.

For me, the profanity cutoff is "does this actually add to what the character/author/speaker is trying to express or is it simply gratuitous?"

kindlekitten · 10-28-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

No, and now I'm scared to!

there's no reason to be.

but it is true that hard charging troops live fast and hard. the work hard, play hard and so on.

Worldwalker · 10-28-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

More than excessive profanity, excessive drinking of alcohol bothers me in novels.

I recently read a book with Navy SEAL characters, and those men drank far too much for a group with access to firearms. I kept waiting for one of them to shoot himself in the foot.

Naw, that's generally chubby police chiefs giving firearms safety lectures. Especially in Florida, USA.

Penforhire · 10-28-2010, 01:58 PM

As someone who rarely, but sometimes, drinks to excess and has access to firearms I don't see a connection between being intoxicated and increased risk to others. Alcohol in the bloodstream makes reactions slow and reduce inhibitions but "thou shall not kill" remains fairly clear in my mind, lol, along with not even handling a firearm on those rare times when I'm drunk.

Is it so hard to imagine it as identical to not driving while drunk (which I don't)? I wouldn't have a problem with any elite military character (or actual person) getting drunk outside the line of duty.

Seanette · 10-28-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penforhire

As someone who rarely, but sometimes, drinks to excess and has access to firearms I don't see a connection between being intoxicated and increased risk to others. Alcohol in the bloodstream makes reactions slow and reduce inhibitions but "thou shall not kill" remains fairly clear in my mind, lol, along with not even handling a firearm on those rare times when I'm drunk.

Is it so hard to imagine it as identical to not driving while drunk (which I don't)? I wouldn't have a problem with any elite military character (or actual person) getting drunk outside the line of duty.

Alcohol does reduce inhibitions and impair both judgment and coordination, so a drunk is likely to be a lot less able to safely handle a weapon, and may not be in a state of mind to be as careful as he/she would be sober. Even leaving out interpersonal violence (which I'm pretty sure most police officers, medical people, etc., would say is more likely when alcohol is involved), showing off alleged skill or simply not paying attention to safety seems a lot more likely to me if someone's been drinking.

kindlekitten · 10-28-2010, 05:55 PM

the level of training with not only any military member, but especially the elite forces as well as the level of respect that they have for the damage that weapons can do is a good check on any gunplay. the same goes for simply going to bars. these guys really can kill with little effort without a weapon, do you see that happening very often? (and I don't mean your basic bar fight)

Joebill · 10-28-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

More than excessive profanity, excessive drinking of alcohol bothers me in novels.

I recently read a book with Navy SEAL characters, and those men drank far too much for a group with access to firearms. I kept waiting for one of them to shoot himself in the foot.

I knew a Seal, over 85 percent casualty rate in hs unit.

Only drank 3 beers, then walked back to where he could ride to the duty station.

Never picked a fight. Never allowed himself to be goaded into a fight.

I was on shore patrol, and got him back to our unit, not Seals, inspite of some dork pretending to be an officer who spent over an hour trying to goad him into a fight.

The twit pretending an officer only had 6 helpers. He would have lost. Probably crippled for life. I got a thank you the next day from the Seal and his officer. And an apology from the twit. Who got chewed out, for over 2 hours from what I heard later. rumor has it an Admiral was Not Happy with the twit, and told him so.

Did the twit make trouble for us later ? He got transferred before he got the chance. I believe he retired early. Years early.

So, no. I am not worried about drunk SEALs.

Joebill · 10-28-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

No, and now I'm scared to!

Most people who have devastating hand kill skills are very polite people.

Worldwalker · 10-28-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seanette

Alcohol does reduce inhibitions and impair both judgment and coordination, so a drunk is likely to be a lot less able to safely handle a weapon, and may not be in a state of mind to be as careful as he/she would be sober. Even leaving out interpersonal violence (which I'm pretty sure most police officers, medical people, etc., would say is more likely when alcohol is involved), showing off alleged skill or simply not paying attention to safety seems a lot more likely to me if someone's been drinking.

Basically, SEALs are not quite like the rest of us. The people who are like the rest of us aren't even accepted for training. They're used to not just doing their duty but thinking about precisely how to do it with no sleep, excess pain, and conditions I wouldn't want to dream of. They don't show off "alleged skill"; they don't need to. Ever met a real cracker? They don't brag; that's for script kiddies. But if a system needs to be broken, they'll do it. SEALs are the same way. They know what they can do. They've proven it to the people who matter -- their instructors and their buddies. They don't have to show off to some random wanker in a bar, because he doesn't matter. Both their basic mindset and their training are pretty much the antithesis of doing stupid things with weapons. A SEAL too drunk to stand is safer than Joe Average at his best.

kindlekitten · 10-28-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebill

Most people who have devastating hand kill skills are very polite people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Basically, SEALs are not quite like the rest of us. The people who are like the rest of us aren't even accepted for training. They're used to not just doing their duty but thinking about precisely how to do it with no sleep, excess pain, and conditions I wouldn't want to dream of. They don't show off "alleged skill"; they don't need to. Ever met a real cracker? They don't brag; that's for script kiddies. But if a system needs to be broken, they'll do it. SEALs are the same way. They know what they can do. They've proven it to the people who matter -- their instructors and their buddies. They don't have to show off to some random wanker in a bar, because he doesn't matter. Both their basic mindset and their training are pretty much the antithesis of doing stupid things with weapons. A SEAL too drunk to stand is safer than Joe Average at his best.

exactly! been married to a Ranger, dated more than a few SF, son was a SEAL. caged energy they are

doreenjoy · 10-29-2010, 12:06 AM

This may be the last time I attempt to make a joke on this forum.

Slinking away now...

Simon Wood · 10-29-2010, 12:15 AM

Personally I don't mind profanity. People swear in real life and for it not to exist in a book loses some realism.

However, I do think profanity needs to be used sparingly on paper. It tends to stick out more on the printed page than it does on TV or in a movie.

As a personal observation: The more I write the more I find profanity gets in the way of the flow of the dialog or narrative.

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10-28-2010, 06:55 AM	#181
doreenjoy 01000100 01001010 Posts: 1,889 Karma: 2400000 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Polyamorous	More than excessive profanity, excessive drinking of alcohol bothers me in novels. I recently read a book with Navy SEAL characters, and those men drank far too much for a group with access to firearms. I kept waiting for one of them to shoot himself in the foot.

10-28-2010, 01:58 PM	#187
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	As someone who rarely, but sometimes, drinks to excess and has access to firearms I don't see a connection between being intoxicated and increased risk to others. Alcohol in the bloodstream makes reactions slow and reduce inhibitions but "thou shall not kill" remains fairly clear in my mind, lol, along with not even handling a firearm on those rare times when I'm drunk. Is it so hard to imagine it as identical to not driving while drunk (which I don't)? I wouldn't have a problem with any elite military character (or actual person) getting drunk outside the line of duty.

10-28-2010, 05:55 PM	#189
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	the level of training with not only any military member, but especially the elite forces as well as the level of respect that they have for the damage that weapons can do is a good check on any gunplay. the same goes for simply going to bars. these guys really can kill with little effort without a weapon, do you see that happening very often? (and I don't mean your basic bar fight)

10-29-2010, 12:06 AM	#194
doreenjoy 01000100 01001010 Posts: 1,889 Karma: 2400000 Join Date: Mar 2009 Device: Polyamorous	This may be the last time I attempt to make a joke on this forum. Slinking away now...

10-29-2010, 12:15 AM	#195
Simon Wood Addict Posts: 237 Karma: 400001 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: California Device: none	Personally I don't mind profanity. People swear in real life and for it not to exist in a book loses some realism. However, I do think profanity needs to be used sparingly on paper. It tends to stick out more on the printed page than it does on TV or in a movie. As a personal observation: The more I write the more I find profanity gets in the way of the flow of the dialog or narrative.