Kindle or EPUB?

[bill_mchale]

Originally Posted by FF2

"will essentially be presumed guilty until proven innocent"

Only in Louisiana - otherwise it is innocent until proven guilty. Show police report of stolen or lost item.

And how many of us file a lost item report if we loose something as small (and cheap) as an SD card or a thumb drive. Shoot, it might be weeks or months before we even realize it is gone.

In addition, copyright violations don't go to state law, but to federal law, and I think tort law at that, where the standards are lower. The fact that the watermarked flles are on the internet can be seen as evidence of guilt.. and then you have to prove you are not responsible.

--
Bill

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by nowthenmobile

Bookworm_Girl
So, can you surf any websites or just a select few?
Thanks

So far I haven't found any limits to what sites you can visit. It comes with a preloaded list of bookmarks for wikipedia, google, yahoo, BBC, CNN, ESPN, facebook, twitter and the Internet Movie Database. You have to have patience to use the browser. It is slow to load a big web page and move around. But once you find the article you want to read, it will display it in "article mode" which is a simplified view that works well. You can also turn off images to load faster. Mobile versions of websites work best. Although the Kindle 3 has a bug with some mobile websites that forces you to go the regular version.

I don't really miss having wireless on my Sony ereaders. I am content to buy and transfer books via USB since I like to shop around for the best EPUB prices. I use the wireless browser on my Kindle mostly to supplement my reading experience by looking up information on wikipedia rather than do aimless internet surfing. It is really nice that it is integrated into the Kindle reading experience, but I see it as more of a convenience. However, I also have a smartphone that I can look up the same info quickly when I am using my Sony ereader. Not everyone has that option.

You haven't mentioned wireless access as an important criteria in your decision in your other posts. Do you think that you would need it? Are you the type of person that likes to have access to wikipedia and google while you read a book? Do you think you might use the reader a lot outside of your home? Just a few things to consider. If so, then maybe wireless is another check-box in the Kindle column for you versus the 350.

[nowthenmobile]

Bookworm_Girl
Yes, it's pretty low on my list of priorities but it could be useful occasionally (not having any form of mobile internet), but perhaps not if it is really slow.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by nowthenmobile

Bookworm_Girl
Yes, it's pretty low on my list of priorities but it could be useful occasionally (not having any form of mobile internet), but perhaps not if it is really slow.

It's not "really" slow just not as speedy as my iPhone or home computer. There is a new firmware update 3.0.2 coming imminently. It hasn't been pushed out wirelessly yet but you can download it. I haven't downloaded it yet. However, some people are reporting that the browser is much faster with the new update.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by nowthenmobile

Bookworm_Girl
Yes, it's pretty low on my list of priorities but it could be useful occasionally (not having any form of mobile internet), but perhaps not if it is really slow.

Hello, nowthenmobile. Just thought I'd let you know that I installed the new update today (3.0.3 preview release). I agree with the other reports that the browser seems much faster with the new firmware.

[nowthenmobile]

Well, that's something to bear in mind then.

I have just received my library card from the neighbouring county - quite exciting! So, I am definitely leaning towards the Sony PRS 350. In fact, I found out the other day, from a friend who works in a local library, that my county libraries are investigating lending ePUBs. So things look really promising on the library front. Certainly, the additional £20 for the Sony (instead of the Kindle) would be paid for many times over by the borrowing of ebooks.

All I've got to do now is to sell my Sony PRS 600 on ebay. What a drag.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Exciting news indeed! I am happy that the neighboring library card worked out for you. There was an article in the news this week that Overdrive has received a venture capital investment to help accelerate their growth in the US and overseas. Now hopefully your library finds it worth investing funds into ebooks too!

You can read the Overdrive press release at the link below if it so interests you:
http://www.overdrive.com/aboutus/get...cleID=20101018

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by nowthenmobile

Well, that's something to bear in mind then.
All I've got to do now is to sell my Sony PRS 600 on ebay. What a drag.

I forgot to add that I sympathize that it is an inconvenience to have deal with the re-sale on ebay. However, on a positive note, at least you got some hands-on experience with a Sony ereader. That should give you an idea of what the user software interface is like and how the product works. I really like the Sony user interface better than the Kindle for basic organization of books, music, photos, etc.

[James_Wilde]

I just can't understand Amazon's refusal to support Epub. I suppose it's simply trying to tie their customers to buying ebooks through them. In the long run, I'm convinced that you're going to get a wider choice by opting for epub. It's the only genuinely open source format, and just about every ereader except the Kindle supports it. And even now, if you can get a book through Amazon for their format, you can probably get it somewhere else in epub format.

It wouldn't surprise me to see that Amazon start supporting epub in a not too distant future, and if they do, there'll be an instant demand for a firmware upgrade from all Kindle owners to be able to use epubs.

I think the success of the Kindle is a result of a) it's relatively cheap but nonetheless good quality, b) it comes from a company with a very high profile in the book world and c) it was one of the first ebook readers from a large company. Sony may have been there earlier, I don't know, but Amazon was very early out.

But I don't think the Kindle can maintain its lead in the long run without embracing epub.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

I just can't understand Amazon's refusal to support Epub. I suppose it's simply trying to tie their customers to buying ebooks through them.

But I don't think the Kindle can maintain its lead in the long run without embracing epub.

I've purchased physical books from Amazon for many years, love to shop there, but when I finally decided to get an e-reader just a couple of weeks ago, I didn't buy a Kindle. Which means that Amazon can no longer get my book business going forward. If Amazon sold epubs, I'd continue to shop there. If Kindle supported epubs, I might well have bought one.

So they've in effect turned away the business of a loyal customer. I just don't understand it.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

I just can't understand Amazon's refusal to support Epub.
I suppose it's simply trying to tie their customers to buying ebooks through them.

You understand it perfectly then
Amazon are interested in selling eBooks, the Kindle is a means to do that. They are perfectly happy to support other ways of buying books from them, which is why you can get Kindle apps for the PC, iThing, Android and BlackBerry. Selling a Kindle is a one-off profit, locking a customer in gives long term returns.
They don't want to sell hardware that is then never used to buy books from them.

It's the only genuinely open source format

Lets not get too dewy eyed about ePub. It is html in a zip file, with some extra files for metadata and the ability to apply DRM. There isn't anything magic about it. (It also has a horrible designed-in limitation on individual file size which means you have to break books up into chunks.)

It wouldn't surprise me to see that Amazon start supporting epub in a not too distant future, and if they do, there'll be an instant demand for a firmware upgrade from all Kindle owners to be able to use epubs.

How is it going to be in Amazon's interest to make it easier for people to shop somewhere other than Amazon?

I think the success of the Kindle is a result of a) it's relatively cheap but nonetheless good quality, b) it comes from a company with a very high profile in the book world and c) it was one of the first ebook readers from a large company. Sony may have been there earlier, I don't know, but Amazon was very early out.

d) It is extremely easy to use, especially when buying books. No need for a PC or extra software, just click and the book magically appears. That works because Amazon control all stages of the process.
e) It allows you to buy books from Amazon

But I don't think the Kindle can maintain its lead in the long run without embracing epub.

Why? For countries Amazon has decided to compete in (which is currently a small number), are there a large number of books which are not available in a format the Kindle supports?

[=X=]

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

.... It's the only genuinely open source format, and just about every ereader except the Kindle supports it. ...

No it's not, PDF is and that is supported by 100% of the devices out today.

Also if ePUB is so open try reading an ePub purchased on B&N with your Sony Reader, or a book purchased from the Apple's book store on your nook/Sony reader.

As long as the ePUB standard allows different DRM schemes on ePUB each ePUB+DRM is a completely different format.

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

I just can't understand Amazon's refusal to support Epub. I suppose it's simply trying to tie their customers to buying ebooks through them. In the long run, I'm convinced that you're going to get a wider choice by opting for epub.

To support ePUB they lose money and control.

They own the MOBI standard that means that they have complete control over the format and do not have to listen to a commity.

Second if they add ePUB support then they have to deal with the multitude of support issues with a format that does not generate them money. People will expect the same level of functionality the MOBI/TOPAZ, and PDF.

Since they do not have any control over the format issues with ePUB generated books will also generate support issues.

Last with all the different DRMs out there. Even if they claim they do not support ePUB + DRM, customers will demand support, or continue to call support with regards to DRM related issues.

I just does not make any business sense.

And for those who say 'Amazon lost my business' because they don't support ePUB, well look at the numbers and they continue to dominate the market because book price, selection, and convenience are what most people care about not format.

Originally Posted by James_Wilde

But I don't think the Kindle can maintain its lead in the long run without embracing epub.

I actually agree with you here, but only when ePUB either mandates 1 DRM scheme or completely abandons DRM.

But ePUB still needs a lot more improvement before it becomes universally usable.

=X=

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by =X=

And for those who say 'Amazon lost my business' because they don't support ePUB, well look at the numbers and they continue to dominate the market because book price, selection, and convenience are what most people care about not format.

Every e-book I've looked at on Amazon and BN has had the same price, and if it's been available in one store, it's been in the other store. Both seem equally convenient.

I think people do care about format when they realize that Kindle both locks them out of library borrowing and ties them only to Amazon, forever. Kindle had a big head start but will its domination last with so many challengers around now?

[LakeLoon]

Originally Posted by =X=

As long as the ePUB standard allows different DRM schemes on ePUB each ePUB+DRM is a completely different format.

Isn't this the point? I think most people who say "Kindle should support ePub" really mean "Kindle should support Adobe Digital Editions" (or whatever DRM standard is used by a competing bookstore). If your ePub is non-DRM'd, you can convert it to MOBI, with some limitations, and vice versa.

I agree with =X=, it makes absolutely no business sense for Amazon to support competing DRM schemes. All it means is losing money from lost sales (i.e., the person bought the book elsewhere or borrowed it from a library).

Now if publishers/retailers were smart, they would offer a "trade up" program that lets you buy, say, the Kindle version of an ePub you already own for a low but meaningful fee. Assuming the fee gets spread around correctly, pretty much everybody wins. (I am assuming here that relatively few people would be willing to pay full price for a Kindle version of an ePub they already bought.)

[encapuchado]

Originally Posted by FF2

"will essentially be presumed guilty until proven innocent"

Only in Louisiana - otherwise it is innocent until proven guilty. Show police report of stolen or lost item.

Yeah, the kingfish shadow is still there.