What do you think the Amazon Kindle means for the Sony Readers? - Page 6

bingle · 11-20-2007, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlondikeGeoff

Also, I am chagrined and appalled to see that Sony seems to be following Gemstar's idiotic policy of keeping it pretty much a secret. If they advertised it at a tiny fraction of the amount they do for their other consumer products, there would be a quantum jump in sales, but for some unknown reason, they don't seem to want to. Very mysterious.

Yeah, this confuses me, also. One of the surprising things about the Kindle launch, for me, was the attitude among the press that this was the first of its kind. Not one question for Bezos about the Sony competition. They let him get away with implying it was the first e-ink device on the market. The only comments about other devices in the mainstream media were about the multitude of failed ebook readers in the past.

If Sony had made a big deal out of the Reader launch, they could have gotten the first mover advantage! Granted, it's not as big of a deal as Amazon launching one (since it's their first foray into devices, and since they have all this content) but still...

DougFNJ · 11-20-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlondikeGeoff

Also, I am chagrined and appalled to see that Sony seems to be following Gemstar's idiotic policy of keeping it pretty much a secret. If they advertised it at a tiny fraction of the amount they do for their other consumer products, there would be a quantum jump in sales, but for some unknown reason, they don't seem to want to. Very mysterious.

I therefore predict, that even if they change their minds and start promoting, it is far too late to compete with the power that Amazon.com can exert in promoting the Kindle. They may keep it going on a tiny scale, but it will never compete with Amazon's ability to do business on a vast scale. I hope it continues, and I will keep mine, but expect will get a Kindle after it has aged a bit and/or the next version comes out.

Alas, poor ol' Sony will never be able to catch up to Amazon. I hope I'm wrong, but doubt it.

Ive been saying this for a year now!!!! If iPod hadn't been marketed the way it was from launch, it would had been just another MP3 player. It seems like Sony dosen't learn from their own previous success (Sony Walkman), or their failures (Minidisc)

I am now seeing the limited publicity along the lines of comparisons of the Sony Reader and the Kindle, you would think Sony would throw something out there mentioning you could go to a local store and see, touch, hear, and play with THIS Reader, it's cheaper, looks and feels better, etc. I would be very disappointed in Sony if this goes the way of the original Connect software and hardware music products because of their hesitation to throw a couple extra dollars into marketing.

Wake up Sony!!!! Oh and by the way, lets boost up the book selection a bit as promised last year.....

This could either be a HUGE opportunity for Sony to get everyone on the E-book wagon, or yet another great product that got away. Lets hope they do the right thing here.

igorsk · 11-20-2007, 07:53 PM

I suspect Sony execs just didn't expect much from ebooks so the funds were rather not on the same level as other CE gizmos. Hopefully now they'll get serious.

Rocketime · 11-20-2007, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

No, nothing in the literature has ever indicated that Kindle files could be read on a pc. Perhaps someday but not now. Of course the real answer is. What in the world would you ever want to do that when you have a reader??!!

Dale

Maybe a 22" back lit screen while sitting in your cushy office chair with nothing to do but relax and get caught up on some reading?

jeffgrado · 11-20-2007, 08:08 PM

Prices on previous Connect releases are now starting to come down. 'The Age of Turbulence' is down to 12.99, 'I am America' is 10.79. This is the benefit to competition!

jasonkchapman · 11-20-2007, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgrado

Prices on previous Connect releases are now starting to come down. 'The Age of Turbulence' is down to 12.99, 'I am America' is 10.79. This is the benefit to competition!

I suspect we'll see a drop in price for the Reader itself soon. At $199, it begins to look like a reasonably-priced alternative to the deluxe Kindle.

thegrendel · 11-21-2007, 02:59 PM

... IMXHO.

Way too expensive at $400. Integrated keyboard unnecessary -- a USB keyboard port
would have been much more appropriate. Closed operating system, hard to hack or modify. Worst of all, Amazon made it difficult to load your own materials.

I would guess that Amazon needs to sell about a half million of these babies in the next few
months for the business model to be viable ... to provide enough customers for their e-books.
If Jeff is lucky, he'll sell a tenth that many.

Prediction: by this time next year, these thingies will be selling for $50 on eBay and the Amazon e-book venture will be down for the duration.

AnemicOak · 11-21-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrendel

Way too expensive at $400.

The market will decide that I guess.

Quote:

Integrated keyboard unnecessary -- a USB keyboard port
would have been much more appropriate.

IMO if they were going to have a keyboard at all having it integrated is the way to go. Having a separate attachment is just one more item to lose/break/carry around.

Quote:

Worst of all, Amazon made it difficult to load your own materials.

I don't have one, but from what I can tell it's no harder to load your own content than any of the other devices out there.

Quote:

Prediction: by this time next year, these thingies will be selling for $50 on eBay and the Amazon e-book venture will be down for the duration.

I highly doubt it, but I suppose you could be right.

Andy Baird · 11-21-2007, 06:40 PM

"The [book] prices depend on publishers."

Actually, that isn't true in Amazon's case. It's been widely reported that Amazon is selling those $9.99 bestsellers at a loss--well below the prices their publishers have set. In fact, one spokesperson for a major publishing house, after staunchly declaring in an interview that his company would never reduce prices for ebooks, was visibly shocked when the interviewer informed him that Amazon was already offering his company's bestselling hardcovers on Kindle for $9.99. He had no idea!

It's clear that Amazon, having decided that they can't wait for the hidebound publishing industry to wake up to reality, are taking a loss on these books in order to prime the pump and get Kindle (and the whole ebook concept) off the ground. It's a risk, but they have the deep pockets to do this for as long as it takes; Sony doesn't.

And Amazon is 100% committed to this venture, risk or no. Jeff Bezos says: "This is the most important thing we've ever done." That's not just hype. I'm convinced he's right.

As for Sony, they obviously can't compete as a bookseller. Frankly, I don't believe Borders can either, although a Sony-Borders alliance is a fairly obvious countermove against Kindle. My guess is that they're about as likely to beat Kindle/Amazon as Microsoft's Zune is to beat the iPod/iTunes Store combination.

In the long run, I think Sony's best bet is to stick to their knitting--meaning selling sleekly designed hardware--by licensing the Kindle platform. I think once Kindle gets going, Amazon will be only too happy to offer licenses to other hardware makers. After all, they are in the content business... so the more readers out there, the better, as long as they all tie into Amazon for purchases.

Andy Baird
http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

Andy Baird · 11-21-2007, 06:51 PM

"The other big issue to me is that the screen resolution on the kindle is lower. I really notice the difference between my 500 and 505."

Screen resolution is 167-170 PPI in all three devices. If you can discern a two percent difference in resolution, you have REALLY good eyes! ;-)

The difference between Sony's 500 and 505 is not resolution, but contrast. The 505 and Kindle both use exactly the same display, the latest E-Ink "Vizplex" panel, which has substantially better contrast than the older panels used in the 500. (I have both 500 and 505).

In short, the Kindle's resolution is NOT lower than either of the Sony Readers; and its contrast is exactly as good as the latest Sony Reader's.

Andy Baird
http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

DaleDe · 11-21-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baird

"The other big issue to me is that the screen resolution on the kindle is lower. I really notice the difference between my 500 and 505."

Screen resolution is 167-170 PPI in all three devices. If you can discern a two percent difference in resolution, you have REALLY good eyes! ;-)

Actually there is zero resolution difference. there is only round off error in the specs. The same devices are reported to have 166, 166 2/3, 167, and 170 in the literature. The screen is exactly the same, it depends on how many digits of resolution you want. The only higher resolution display that E-ink makes is a 5" display with the same 600x800 display as the 6" one. That would yield 200 dpi.

Dale

pilotbob · 11-21-2007, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Baird

"It's clear that Amazon, having decided that they can't wait for the hidebound publishing industry to wake up to reality, are taking a loss on these books in order to prime the pump and get Kindle (and the whole ebook concept) off the ground. It's a risk, but they have the deep pockets to do this for as long as it takes; Sony doesn't.

Hmmm....

Sony for YE 2007 (March) made $1,073,788,000 Net Income that's $1.07 Billion on $70,513,408,000 (70 Billion) in revenues.

Amazon for YE 2006 (Dec) made 190,000,000 Net Income that's .19 Billion on $10,711,000,000 (10.7 Billion) in revenues.

So, Sony made like 9.5 times the income (profit) of Amazon in only 7 times the revenue (sales).

Plus, Sony has $6.8Billion of Cash with total Assets of $1Trillion while Amazon has about 1.02Billion of Cash with total Assets of about 4.4Billion.

So, I think Sony really is the one with the "deep pockets" compared to Amazon... and if they wanted to do this, they could!

BOb

BTW: These numbers all came from Yahoo finance, you can check them yourself.

Nate the great · 11-21-2007, 08:31 PM

Quote:

The other big issue to me is that the screen resolution on the kindle is lower. I really notice the difference between my 500 and 505.

The screen resolution is the same on all three devices (800 by 600). Also, the Kindle and the 505 use the exact same screen (Vizplex).

gregr209 · 11-21-2007, 09:53 PM

I hate to say it but as a new owner of a Sony Reader 505 I am returning it and have already ordered the Kindle. There are just to many features on the Kindle that the Sony Reader doesn't have - wireless included. Plus the lower prices for the best sellers is just to good to pass up. I love the Sony Reader but the Kindle has so much more even for the extra 100 bucks. Sony is so behind the game in regards to how to create market buzz it isn't even funny.

Kindle, here I come!

Greg

byebyeSony · 11-22-2007, 12:42 AM

I have owned a PRS-500 since Jan/07 and bought the PRS-505 a couple of weeks ago. After seeing the Kindle launch, I got my RMA from Sony, returned my PRS-505 and ordered the Kindle. To be honest, when I look at Sony's track record in other areas (e.g. DAPs) and then consider the e-book space, I simply don't think that they can or have the will to compete. In addition, there were simply too many features on the Kindle that compelled me to convert:

- OTA book purchases

- Decent pricing - Let's face it buying books on Connect hurts both from a pricing and user experience perspective

- Breadth of available content vs Connect

- Ability to purchase periodicals such as newspapers and magazines

- Access to online resources such as Wikipedia

- Same e-ink tech as the 505

I do love Sony's design, and I agree with another poster who pointed out his hope that Sony will (be able to) license/partner with Amazon in the future.

11-21-2007, 02:59 PM	#82
thegrendel Member Posts: 18 Karma: 10 Join Date: Oct 2007 Device: Sony PRS-500	Bezos blew it ... ... IMXHO. Way too expensive at $400. Integrated keyboard unnecessary -- a USB keyboard port would have been much more appropriate. Closed operating system, hard to hack or modify. Worst of all, Amazon made it difficult to load your own materials. I would guess that Amazon needs to sell about a half million of these babies in the next few months for the business model to be viable ... to provide enough customers for their e-books. If Jeff is lucky, he'll sell a tenth that many. Prediction: by this time next year, these thingies will be selling for $50 on eBay and the Amazon e-book venture will be down for the duration.

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11-20-2007, 07:53 PM	#78
igorsk Wizard Posts: 3,442 Karma: 300001 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Device: PRS-500/505/700, Kindle, Cybook Gen3, Words Gear	I suspect Sony execs just didn't expect much from ebooks so the funds were rather not on the same level as other CE gizmos. Hopefully now they'll get serious.

11-20-2007, 08:08 PM	#80
jeffgrado Member Posts: 13 Karma: 36 Join Date: Jul 2006 Device: Nokia 770	Prices on previous Connect releases are now starting to come down. 'The Age of Turbulence' is down to 12.99, 'I am America' is 10.79. This is the benefit to competition!

11-21-2007, 06:40 PM	#84
Andy Baird Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2007 Device: Sony PRS-500	"The [book] prices depend on publishers." Actually, that isn't true in Amazon's case. It's been widely reported that Amazon is selling those $9.99 bestsellers at a loss--well below the prices their publishers have set. In fact, one spokesperson for a major publishing house, after staunchly declaring in an interview that his company would never reduce prices for ebooks, was visibly shocked when the interviewer informed him that Amazon was already offering his company's bestselling hardcovers on Kindle for $9.99. He had no idea! It's clear that Amazon, having decided that they can't wait for the hidebound publishing industry to wake up to reality, are taking a loss on these books in order to prime the pump and get Kindle (and the whole ebook concept) off the ground. It's a risk, but they have the deep pockets to do this for as long as it takes; Sony doesn't. And Amazon is 100% committed to this venture, risk or no. Jeff Bezos says: "This is the most important thing we've ever done." That's not just hype. I'm convinced he's right. As for Sony, they obviously can't compete as a bookseller. Frankly, I don't believe Borders can either, although a Sony-Borders alliance is a fairly obvious countermove against Kindle. My guess is that they're about as likely to beat Kindle/Amazon as Microsoft's Zune is to beat the iPod/iTunes Store combination. In the long run, I think Sony's best bet is to stick to their knitting--meaning selling sleekly designed hardware--by licensing the Kindle platform. I think once Kindle gets going, Amazon will be only too happy to offer licenses to other hardware makers. After all, they are in the content business... so the more readers out there, the better, as long as they all tie into Amazon for purchases. Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

11-21-2007, 06:51 PM	#85
Andy Baird Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2007 Device: Sony PRS-500	"The other big issue to me is that the screen resolution on the kindle is lower. I really notice the difference between my 500 and 505." Screen resolution is 167-170 PPI in all three devices. If you can discern a two percent difference in resolution, you have REALLY good eyes! ;-) The difference between Sony's 500 and 505 is not resolution, but contrast. The 505 and Kindle both use exactly the same display, the latest E-Ink "Vizplex" panel, which has substantially better contrast than the older panels used in the 500. (I have both 500 and 505). In short, the Kindle's resolution is NOT lower than either of the Sony Readers; and its contrast is exactly as good as the latest Sony Reader's. Andy Baird http://www.andybaird.com/travels/

11-21-2007, 09:53 PM	#89
gregr209 Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 29 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tracy, CA Device: Sony Reader 505 / Kindle	I hate to say it but as a new owner of a Sony Reader 505 I am returning it and have already ordered the Kindle. There are just to many features on the Kindle that the Sony Reader doesn't have - wireless included. Plus the lower prices for the best sellers is just to good to pass up. I love the Sony Reader but the Kindle has so much more even for the extra 100 bucks. Sony is so behind the game in regards to how to create market buzz it isn't even funny. Kindle, here I come! Greg

11-22-2007, 12:42 AM	#90
byebyeSony Junior Member Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2007 Device: Kindle	I have owned a PRS-500 since Jan/07 and bought the PRS-505 a couple of weeks ago. After seeing the Kindle launch, I got my RMA from Sony, returned my PRS-505 and ordered the Kindle. To be honest, when I look at Sony's track record in other areas (e.g. DAPs) and then consider the e-book space, I simply don't think that they can or have the will to compete. In addition, there were simply too many features on the Kindle that compelled me to convert: - OTA book purchases - Decent pricing - Let's face it buying books on Connect hurts both from a pricing and user experience perspective - Breadth of available content vs Connect - Ability to purchase periodicals such as newspapers and magazines - Access to online resources such as Wikipedia - Same e-ink tech as the 505 I do love Sony's design, and I agree with another poster who pointed out his hope that Sony will (be able to) license/partner with Amazon in the future.