Do grammatical errors bother you? - Page 14

bobavey · 10-25-2010, 01:46 PM

I think authors should have their work edited. However, the phrase, which started this thread did so due to the use of "Hone in", which according to Cpl Punishment, was used correctly.

Twisted Perception

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...=2940011822049

HarryT · 10-25-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaBookGuy

It must be British as I've have never heard anyone say that, and if i did it would sound more like 1940's to me!

"Ace" was very much an "in" thing to say when I was a teenager in the UK in the 70s.

bjones6416 · 10-25-2010, 02:13 PM

Found it! Here's an example from the current regulation on correspondence from the Army (AR 25-50):

(11) Army National Guard personnel not on active duty will use the two-letter State or territory abbreviation of their
unit followed by “ARNG,” for example, KSARNG (Kansas Army National Guard personnel).

Isn't this what we are discussing? Under British rules, the comma following the acronym ARNG would be outside of the quotes, not inside, right? The Army, however, does it this way. (Note that of course with parenthesis the "British" way always applies -- in the paragraph above, the punctuation is outside of the parenthesis because it is the end of the sentence, and what is inside the parenthesis is not the whole sentence.)

bjones6416 · 10-25-2010, 02:19 PM

And from the same regulation, the rule that applies:

b. Short quotations. Use quotation marks before and after the quoted material. Always place the comma and final
period inside the quotation marks. Place other punctuation inside only if they are part of the quoted material.

HarryT · 10-25-2010, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrscoach

Harry, I would have gone with the British version of the two "Carefree" examples if given a choice, so I think wiki isn't entirely accurate on this. And since I am currently studying English I feel I know what I am talking about. To me the comma and period go with the sentence, not the quoted material. And that is how we were teaching it last year.

The references that Wiki gives for the "commas and periods go before the closing quote" rule are:

The Associated Press Stylebook, p. 337; The Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition 6.9, pp. 242–243; Strunk, William Jr., and White, E. B. The Elements of Style. Pearson Education Company, 4th edition, p. 36; The Globe and Mail Style Book. McFarlane and Warren Clements, 9th edition, p. 237; Brinck, Tom; Gergle, Darren; Wood, Scott D. Usability for the Web. Morgan Kaufmann, 2002, p. 277; Punctuation, The Chicago Manual of Style Online, accessed February 17, 2010.

so it seems that there is some support for the position. As you rightly say, however, there are different "style rules" that different people apply. I've written numerous articles for scientific journals, and they each have their own stylistic guidelines that one has to follow when submitting an article to that particular journal.

HarryT · 10-25-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjones6416

Isn't this what we are discussing? Under British rules, the comma following the acronym ARNG would be outside of the quotes, not inside, right?

That's right, yes. Under the British system, a full stop (period) or comma only goes inside the quotes if it forms a part of the material being quoted.

Bilbo1967 · 10-25-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's right, yes. Under the British system, a full stop (period) or comma only goes inside the quotes if it forms a part of the material being quoted.

And would you then put another full stop outside the quotes if it were the end of the whole sentence? e.g.

She moved towards him and said, "Don't do that again.".

I would, because otherwise the non-quoted bit has no concluding punctuation mark, but always think that it looks a bit odd.

HarryT · 10-25-2010, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

And would you then put another full stop outside the quotes if it were the end of the whole sentence? e.g.

She moved towards him and said, "Don't do that again.".

I would, because otherwise the non-quoted bit has no concluding punctuation mark, but always think that it looks a bit odd.

No, I don't think I would, personally. I can't say why, but it looks wrong.

If there was a different punctuation mark at the end of the sentence, then obviously I would put that. Eg:

Quote:

Did she say "don't do that again."?

Bilbo1967 · 10-25-2010, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, I don't think I would, personally. I can't say why, but it looks wrong.

If there was a different punctuation mark at the end of the sentence, then obviously I would put that. Eg:

Yes, that distinction makes sense (although I could still contend that in the first instance the whole sentence has no concluding punctuation).

I'm still undecided.

Under the Covers · 10-25-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Although "My wife and I..." would be the more common usage, there's absolutely nothing grammatically wrong with "I and my wife...".

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxcorner

I was taught it's impolite to put oneself first.

Yet another reflection of the increasingly accepted attitude of ME FIRST in our culture.

Ken Irving · 10-25-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpl Punishment

Sorry couldn't help it....but ummm...

hone in
1. To move or advance toward a target or goal: The missiles honed in on the military installation.
2. To direct one's attention; focus: The lawyer honed in on the gist of the plaintiff's testimony.

Where on earth (or "The Internets") is that from?

Citation from Dictionary.com:

home in

verb
direct onto a point or target, especially by automatic navigational aids [syn: range in]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hone+in marks "hone in" as incorrect usage which appeared in the mid 60s.

There is no such thing as active radar hoNing, a hoNing pigeon, or a hoNing beacon. Active radar homing, homing pigeons, and homing beacons all have to do with locking into a particular spot and moving toward it. You can hone your axe at home, but you can't home your axe at hone. They are two different words, and just because someone couldn't tell the difference between an m and n back in the mid 60s and the words home and home sorta kinda sound the same doesn't make "hone in" right, any more than "in regards to" is a correct replacement for "in regard to" just because they only differ by a single letter.

On the other hand, if you just meant the above as facetious and I'm missing the point, then as Emily Litella would say: Never mind!

Lo Zeno · 10-25-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

"Ace" was very much an "in" thing to say when I was a teenager in the UK in the 70s.

And my textbook said that it was a common word... in the early 90s

Sheesh! Way beyond obsolete.

Back to quotation marks, I found this interesting link:
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp
which says that it depends on the punctuation used. It presents 7 rules, of which the first two are:
1) Periods and commas always go inside quotation marks, even inside single quote
2) The placement of question marks with quotes follows logic. If a question is in quotation marks, the question mark should be placed inside the quotation marks.

So it looks like it depends also on WHAT is the punctuation you want to include into the quotation marks.
I can't find, though, if this "blue book of grammar and punctuation" refers to British or American English.

mrscoach · 10-25-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilbo1967

And would you then put another full stop outside the quotes if it were the end of the whole sentence? e.g.

She moved towards him and said, "Don't do that again.".

I would, because otherwise the non-quoted bit has no concluding punctuation mark, but always think that it looks a bit odd.

Only one ending punctuation would be needed.

She moved towards him and said "Don't do that again." or She moved towards him and said "Don't do that again!"

But if the punctuation of the sentence is different from the quote the punctuation goes after the quotation marks.

Did she move towards him and say "Don't do that again"?

mrscoach · 10-25-2010, 05:41 PM

This is all giving me a headache! And I want to teach this stuff???? What am I thinking?

I've long known that papers for school and works written for publishing in papers have different style requirements, but this is ridiculous.

I'm going to keep putting quotations like I have in the past. Which is obviously in the British style. Who knew?

Bilbo1967 · 10-25-2010, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrscoach

Only one ending punctuation would be needed.

She moved towards him and said "Don't do that again." or She moved towards him and said "Don't do that again!"

But if the punctuation of the sentence is different from the quote the punctuation goes after the quotation marks.

Did she move towards him and say "Don't do that again"?

What if the bit in the quotes clearly needs a different puntuation than the sentence as a whole?

e.g.

Did she just scream, "Oh no!"?

Can you have the two bits of punctuation as above?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Oh bother. They didn't fix the ePub/PDF library book issue	NNolan	Sony Reader	31	11-05-2010 10:27 PM
New eBook: A 'Why-Bother?' housekeeping manual	DanRaine	Self-Promotions by Authors and Publishers	7	10-24-2010 12:58 PM
Why does the page refresh on eink devices bother people so much?	brecklundin	News	46	09-16-2009 01:23 PM
Errors and Errors...	uncultured	Amazon Kindle	7	03-11-2009 05:11 PM
Should I bother with the firmware update? (UK)	yegon	Sony Reader	14	08-15-2008 05:02 PM

10-25-2010, 01:46 PM	#196
bobavey Bob Avey Posts: 117 Karma: 501082 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Broken Arrow, OK Device: none	I think authors should have their work edited. However, the phrase, which started this thread did so due to the use of "Hone in", which according to Cpl Punishment, was used correctly. Twisted Perception http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...=2940011822049

10-25-2010, 02:13 PM	#198
bjones6416 ↓↓ Skirt!! Earrings!! Posts: 3,394 Karma: 17432172 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Georgia, USA Device: Acer netbook, JetBook Lite, Sony PRS-300, Kindle 2, Kindle Fire	Found it! Here's an example from the current regulation on correspondence from the Army (AR 25-50): (11) Army National Guard personnel not on active duty will use the two-letter State or territory abbreviation of their unit followed by “ARNG,” for example, KSARNG (Kansas Army National Guard personnel). Isn't this what we are discussing? Under British rules, the comma following the acronym ARNG would be outside of the quotes, not inside, right? The Army, however, does it this way. (Note that of course with parenthesis the "British" way always applies -- in the paragraph above, the punctuation is outside of the parenthesis because it is the end of the sentence, and what is inside the parenthesis is not the whole sentence.)

10-25-2010, 02:19 PM	#199
bjones6416 ↓↓ Skirt!! Earrings!! Posts: 3,394 Karma: 17432172 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Georgia, USA Device: Acer netbook, JetBook Lite, Sony PRS-300, Kindle 2, Kindle Fire	And from the same regulation, the rule that applies: b. Short quotations. Use quotation marks before and after the quoted material. Always place the comma and final period inside the quotation marks. Place other punctuation inside only if they are part of the quoted material.

10-25-2010, 05:41 PM	#209
mrscoach Guru Posts: 767 Karma: 4837659 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Angelo Texas Device: Samsung Galaxy tab	This is all giving me a headache! And I want to teach this stuff???? What am I thinking? I've long known that papers for school and works written for publishing in papers have different style requirements, but this is ridiculous. I'm going to keep putting quotations like I have in the past. Which is obviously in the British style. Who knew?