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Old 10-24-2010, 05:33 PM   #46
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I certainly see how this looks contradictory. But I honestly believe she's being consistent, even in the context of such seemingly disparate remarks. It all comes down to the Christ allegory and Christ figure (allusion) being very different literary forms; and I believe Rowling knows that, and therefore can be consistent in the above quotes.

C.S. Lewis set out to re-tell the story of Christ in fantasy form, a way to communicate Christ through modern fairy tale, to educate those that would not necessarily be interested, to evangelize. Those all occur in an allegory form. Aslan is Jesus. Even his form -- a lion -- invokes Christ. He is equated with Christ. As I said, a re-telling of Christ's story.

Rowling, OTOH, is making reference to Christ. Not equating Harry with Christ, not saying that Harry is a duplicate of Christ. Just, in some particular instances, she uses the allusion to Christ as a tool to communicate something thematic. To me, it's that love is ultimate conquering force against evil. That's not even a specifically Christian theme, but I see her using the Christian elements of loving sacrifice, death, and redemption to convey that theme about the ultimate power of love.

This is why I'm so strict on delineating between allusion and allegory. On one hand, HP uses the Christ story to convey a message, but on the other hand, it's not done in the same -- or even similar -- way that CS Lewis did in Narnia. They're very different literary devices and not necessarily related. That's how Rowling can say deny one thing about religion in reference to Lewis, and then later affirm religion in the HP story in certain instances: Lewis used a totally different literary device than she herself did, even though they both are "accessing" Christianity to some degree.

-Pie

PS I feel I was a little "heavy handed" in my previous reply, and I apologize for that.
I didn't feel you were heavy handed, for whatever that may be worth.

My feeling is Rowling is capitalizing on the allusions made and that she never intended them. I feel similarly for her claim she intended the HP series to move to a darker theme than the first books had. I'm having a tough time buying into it.
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:36 PM   #47
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OT: So, no one knows what C. S. Lewis' other Christ allegory was?
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:55 PM   #48
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OT: So, no one knows what C. S. Lewis' other Christ allegory was?
The Pilgrim's Regress?
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Old 10-24-2010, 06:38 PM   #49
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The Pilgrim's Regress?
Nope.
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Old 10-24-2010, 06:50 PM   #50
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The only other thing I can think of that he wrote was The Screwtape Letters, but I don't recall enough about them to comment (other than it was written as letters from a senior demon to a junior)
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:01 PM   #51
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The only other thing I can think of that he wrote was The Screwtape Letters, but I don't recall enough about them to comment (other than it was written as letters from a senior demon to a junior)
It's a bit of a stretch but I was referring to his Space Trillogy. It hops around a lot but covers from the creation of humankind to Armegeddon.
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:05 PM   #52
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It's a bit of a stretch but I was referring to his Space Trillogy. It hops around a lot but covers from the creation of humankind to Armegeddon.
I was going to guess that, but I was too slow!

It's the only other thing of Lewis' I'd read, so it was really the only guess I had.

-Pie
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:33 PM   #53
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people find christ in pieces of toast and slabs of plywood. the baker and the woodmill didn't put them there on purpose. any bit of literature can be twisted and turned into any message the reader wishes. someone can probably find a messianic message in the Dick and Jane books
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:43 PM   #54
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people find christ in pieces of toast and slabs of plywood. the baker and the woodmill didn't put them there on purpose. any bit of literature can be twisted and turned into any message the reader wishes. someone can probably find a messianic message in the Dick and Jane books
And find Satan in the same places.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:02 AM   #55
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people find christ in pieces of toast and slabs of plywood. the baker and the woodmill didn't put them there on purpose. any bit of literature can be twisted and turned into any message the reader wishes. someone can probably find a messianic message in the Dick and Jane books
People who twist messages typically don't have rational, textual analysis to back up their claims.

I may certainly be wrong in my conclusions, after all, this is literature, not science. But providing a detailed argument and inviting others to examine and criticize it is a far cry from seeing a christ in a piece of toast. No?

With this in mind, I highly recommend the film Henry Poole Was Here. I like Luke Wilson a lot though.

-Pie
Last edited by EatingPie; 10-25-2010 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 10-25-2010, 01:58 AM   #56
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People who twist messages typically don't have rational, textual analysis to back up their claims.

I may certainly be wrong in my conclusions, after all, this is literature, not science. But providing a detailed argument and inviting others to examine and criticize it is a far cry from seeing a christ in a piece of toast. No?

With this in mind, I highly recommend the film Henry Poole Was Here. I like Luke Wilson a lot though.

-Pie
puttting a christian twist on H.P. is as outlandish to me as the messianic message in Dick and Jane might be to you. in other words; whatever floats your boat, and I may not want your boat floating in my pool
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:33 AM   #57
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literary debate - moved to General Discussions
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:52 AM   #58
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someone can probably find a messianic message in the Dick and Jane books
Are any available online for free reading? I fancy doing something silly
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:51 AM   #59
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Nope.
The Pilgrim's Regress: An Allegorical Apology for Christianity, Reason and Romanticism and I thought the title was a bit of a giveaway...just shows how wring you can be
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:11 AM   #60
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Are any available online for free reading? I fancy doing something silly
I dunno! here's the wiki on them!
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