Coming Soon for Kindle - lending & more

[monkeyluis]

I just want more formats. But then I wouldn't get to use calibre.

[carld]

Originally Posted by kevinp

That's just it - these aren't real 'benefits' for most of us. I don't know anybody that owns a Kindle, so lending is of no use to me. I don't want to read newspapers on my PC either.

You can also lend to Kindle devices, not just Kindles. That includes a whole lot of people. And even if it won't benefit you personally, there are a lot of people it will.

[ProfCrash]

The periodicals feature is great. I was always a bit annoyed that I could not read the NY Times my parents get. We share an account.

The lending is silly. It is silly for the Nook and silly for the Kindle. The good news is that it is one less thing that I have to discuss when comparing the Kindle and the Nook.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for epub.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by carld

You can also lend to Kindle devices, not just Kindles. That includes a whole lot of people. And even if it won't benefit you personally, there are a lot of people it will.

Perhaps. But it's hard to get excited over features that will benefit others, not yourself.

Because the question he answered was why aren't people happier about this? Because it doesn't affect most people, that's why.

edit: It actually occurs to me that if you are really interested in lending books to someone, you'd be better off in the long run simply buying that person a K3 for $139 and putting it on your account. That's what, 10-15 books worth? (Probably closer to 10 as I'm sure the agencies will use this as an excuse to raise prices)

[carld]

There's a difference between not getting excited over a free optional feature and three pages of mostly complaints that it's not ePub support. It reminds me of all the people who complain that the Kindle can be used for things besides reading.

Also, how do we know it won't affect "most people?" What is that opinion based on? If I'm understanding it correctly I can lend books to any friend with a Kindle or Kindle app. That potentially includes anyone with a Kindle, PC, Mac, iPhone, Blackberry or Android Phone. You're saying most people here don't know anyone with one of those devices who might be interested in borrowing an ebook?

[Kumabjorn]

After reading the complaints here I'm not sure I have understood Amazon's statement correctly. I interpreted it as "you can lend out an e-book you have purchased to one other person for a period of 14 days, when the time is up you have access to the book again" and that to me implies I can lend it again to someone else. I kind of visualized a new subforum here called "Kindle e-book lending" in which we could list books we are willing to lend someone in return for borrowing something we want to read. So my initial reaction was euphoric, now it is more dismal.

[Albright]

Originally Posted by flandroid

The lending restrictions make sense completely from Amazon's point of view, and if it was my company I'd do the same thing. Their Kindle bread and butter is the books, and if people could lend them without restrictions they would lose a huge amount of revenue. Ebook piracy is already rampant, there's no need to exacerbate it by making it easy for anyone to start 'lending clubs.'

Here's the thing - and it's something that took the music industry a long time to wrap their head around, and ironically Amazon was one of the ones that helped them do so when Amazon MP3 becomes the first legit online music store selling non-DRM'd music from the major US labels. Pirates are going to pirate outright. They're not going to abuse a lending feature like this; they're going to just download a copy of the book illegally, because it's easier for them to do so. Putting limitations on features like this hinders customers, not pirates. (Yes, okay, technically it's a limitation on a feature which we used to not have, but you get the idea.)

[kevinp]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

After reading the complaints here I'm not sure I have understood Amazon's statement correctly. I interpreted it as "you can lend out an e-book you have purchased to one other person for a period of 14 days, when the time is up you have access to the book again" and that to me implies I can lend it again to someone else. I kind of visualized a new subforum here called "Kindle e-book lending" in which we could list books we are willing to lend someone in return for borrowing something we want to read. So my initial reaction was euphoric, now it is more dismal.

Wrong! You can lend each book one time and one time only. Didn't you read that part?

[Barty]

My disappointment comes from amazon not using their leader position to get better lending terms for their customers rather than just matching the nook.

Borland software (remember them?) had what they called a no nonsense EULA, whereby software is treated like a book -- so long as there is no chance of it being used by two people at the same time on two different computers, it's legit. I think ebook should be treated the same. Lend it, give it away, whatever. As long as there's only one copy being used, it should be okay.

[tammycravit]

I guess I'm confused by the negative sentiment, too. It strikes me that Amazon could be going about promoting change with the publishers in a very smart way: once 14-day one-time lending has been in place for a while and the sky hasn't fallen, Amazon would be in a position to say "see, publishers, the sky hasn't fallen. Let's open this up a bit more." That's at least as plausible as the idea that the company behind (according to one number I saw recently) 70% of e-book sales would just blindly follow B&N.

Remember, the publishing industry is deathly afraid of change (see "agency model" and "drm"). Any change that's going to come in their business model is going to be kicking and screaming. That they're willing to allow lending at all is a step in the right direction.

You don't usually win a war at the first battle.

And, if lending isn't useful for you because you don't know other Kindle users, or you don't like the terms, or whatever, don't use the feature. Nobody's making you.

— Tammy

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by kevinp

Wrong! You can lend each book one time and one time only. Didn't you read that part?

Hence turning dismal. As others have pointed out, this may be a first small step on a journey a 1 000 li long.

[flandroid]

Originally Posted by Albright

Pirates are going to pirate outright. They're not going to abuse a lending feature like this; they're going to just download a copy of the book illegally, because it's easier for them to do so.

Absolutely, but that's an already-established segment of users who are relatively savvy when it comes to finding content from less-than-legitimate sources. The damage done, in terms of lost sales, is pretty stable and probably quantifiable.

With unrestricted lending, you would see a lot of 'core' Kindle users sharing books that might otherwise have been purchased -- especially considering the majority of books is priced at $10 or less.

Pre-lending (ie: now), my Kindle-owning friends have just downloaded the free samples of books I've recommended, to help them decide whether or not to pull the trigger on that particular book. That's already kind of a big deal. So I still think that being able to lend a book, even if only once, to one person, is kind of great.

Also, tammycravit, I really like your reply.

[daffy4u]

Originally Posted by tammycravit

I guess I'm confused by the negative sentiment, too. It strikes me that Amazon could be going about promoting change with the publishers in a very smart way: once 14-day one-time lending has been in place for a while and the sky hasn't fallen, Amazon would be in a position to say "see, publishers, the sky hasn't fallen. Let's open this up a bit more." That's at least as plausible as the idea that the company behind (according to one number I saw recently) 70% of e-book sales would just blindly follow B&N.

Remember, the publishing industry is deathly afraid of change (see "agency model" and "drm"). Any change that's going to come in their business model is going to be kicking and screaming. That they're willing to allow lending at all is a step in the right direction.

You don't usually win a war at the first battle.

And, if lending isn't useful for you because you don't know other Kindle users, or you don't like the terms, or whatever, don't use the feature. Nobody's making you.

— Tammy

I don't believe any one has indicated that they felt forced to use feature they don't like.

We are all expressing our likes, dislikes and wish list of features. What's wrong with that? Amazon asks for feedback. Some of us write them directly, some express them on various boards and we should be able to do that. I do believe Amazon employees on behalf of the company or on their own visit MR from time to time (I had to delete part of the Kindle Visual Guide wiki by Amazon's request). If someone from Amazon should happen by, they will have a wide variety of feedback in one thread.

[TomF]

I never saw the highly-restrictive nook lending "feature" to be a big plus for the nook. And now Amazon, rather than offering something better, will just be matching the competition rather than offering something better.

That's what disappoints me. Amazon is not leading here, it is following. And I expect better from Amazon. They are supposed to be the leader. If they could have just made the lending period 21 days (like my local library) or allowed lending to at least three people, even if it was one-at-a-time, then I would applaud them. As it is it's just a "me-too" feature. So for all the people who don't understand why the reaction is so negative, here's my explanation.

[Wasabihound]

I think the 14 day loan is quite short - maybe you should be allowed to specify the amount of time you can loan the book (say choose between 14, 21 or 28).

Agree it sucks you can lend a book only once though. Would like that clarified (asked in Amazon discussion group)

It makes sense you can't read a Kindle book you've loaned out - I can't do that with a real book - why should I be able to do it with an ebook.

It would be great if libraries could lend Kindle books (they would need to buy/lease multiple copies) and I bet they would like the ability to automatically get the book back after x days - maybe one day....