Oh My - Controversial Artwork Destroyed!

[SneakySnake]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Snakes been ridiculed a fair amount by the Christians.

I thought blamed a lot. But ridiculed! OM%!

It is because they fear the power of the snake!

I guess from the very beginning God was not happy with the snake...

"And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"Genesis 3:14

It makes you wonder what the snake looked like before it was cursed!

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by SneakySnake

I thought blamed a lot. But ridiculed! OM%!

It is because they fear the power of the snake!

I guess from the very beginning God was not happy with the snake...

"And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"Genesis 3:14

It makes you wonder what the snake looked like before it was cursed!

Interestingly, pythons still have rudimentary stumps where their legs used to be. Perhaps that was where the legend got its start, although I know of no discovery of rudimentary vocal cords in any species.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by sweevo

Unless it's for punishment.

You nailed that one. I was thinking that myself, but I'm not cross that you posted first.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

He was probably fat. Slim people as a rule don't get called gluttons.

Originally Posted by sweevo

Unless it's for punishment.

Originally Posted by ardeegee

You nailed that one. I was thinking that myself, but I'm not cross that you posted first.

I was serious. He said people called him a glutton and a drunkard, and the extra weight could be why he died so quickly on the cross (although it's not, of course, the only possible explanation).

(Lk. 7:34 New International Bible)
34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say,'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners".'

(Mk. 15:44-45 New International Bible)
44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died.
45 When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph.

[GraceKrispy]

Originally Posted by SneakySnake

Although it does seem to be OK for everyone to publicy ridicule Christians more than any other faith. Just the same way it seems to be OK to make a white man look like a buffoon in television ads. Try the same with a black guy or a woman and everyone cries "rascist" or "sexist".

I am neither a Christian nor a white man, and I think that everyone should be ridiculed equally.

I totally agree with that last statement! I'd give you Karma, but apparently I have to wait. I guess I've been generous this past 24 hours!

As to the first, it is interesting that what's considered the "dominant" race/culture/religion/whatever is almost like a invite to be ridiculed. Is that the natural evening out of power? Or an attempt at that?

I could be wrong, without numbers to support my assertions, but it seems to me that the white man still has the upper hand in terms of power in the US, and therefore he's prime candidate for public ridicule, whereas the minorities are protected from this public ridicule, but generally seem to be the recipient of more prejudice in daily life.

Yeah, I'm not making sense to myself anymore either.

[Piper_]

Originally Posted by TGS

No, it wasn't my point that the "average believer in Jesus" necessarily believes or supports the beliefs I listed. My point was in response to Falcao's post which asserted that we should respect people's beliefs - I was simply reponding that there are many things that people believe that are either wrong, dangerous, or both and that beliefs, religious or otherwise, are not worthy of respect simply in virtue of the fact that someone believes them.

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you.

In general response to the thread, I don't think the woman did the right thing, and I'm not sure if the artist did, depending on what he painted. (By "Right thing" I don't mean his obvious legal right to do it, but whether or not it was right in terms of common decency to other people.)

I just think we should all try to avoid poking sticks in each others eyes and basically live and let live, as best we can.

It's getting crowded, and for the sake of peace, we need to practice wisdom and the best manners we can. No, I might not respect someone's beliefs, but I'll treat him with respect as a person as long as he isn't interfering with my rights.

That old saying about how we learned everything we needed to know in Kindergarten is simplistic, but some people could use a refresher on good ol' every day common courtesy. I think the world would be a better place, anyway.

[GA Russell]

Tom, it is my understanding that Jesus and his disciples walked everywhere. I have been told that only Roman soldiers (officers?) and high mucky-mucks had horses to ride on.

So for that reason, I believe that Jesus and everyone else was relatively thin and in good shape.

In regard to Jesus' dying after only three hours on the cross, keep in mind that 1) he hadn't slept since Wednesday night, and 2) he was scouraged at the pillar. It is my reading of the gospels' account that the scouraging was meant by Pilate to assuage the crowd calling for a crucifixion, and that it was not normal procedure to precede a crucifixion with a scouraging.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by GraceKrispy

As to the first, it is interesting that what's considered the "dominant" race/culture/religion/whatever is almost like a invite to be ridiculed. Is that the natural evening out of power? Or an attempt at that?

Well, of course popular media is going to base the jokes on things the audience has actually heard of. What's the point of making a crack on Buddhism if you then have to stop and spend 5 minutes explaining some fine details of the religion and it's history for the audience to understand how that pun you made that reflected poorly on the characteristics of a certain 13th century Cambodian monk was really funny?

You want to see mocking of another non-Christian culture? Catch an episode of NBC's new series Outsourced before it is canned.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

(Mk. 15:44-45 New International Bible)
44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died.
45 When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph.

If I were one of the guy's disciples, I would have slipped the centurion a tenner.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

Interestingly, pythons still have rudimentary stumps where their legs used to be. Perhaps that was where the legend got its start, although I know of no discovery of rudimentary vocal cords in any species.

And one of Darwin's observations in studying embryos was the rudimentary leg 'bumps' that snake embryos have.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Tom, it is my understanding that Jesus and his disciples walked everywhere. I have been told that only Roman soldiers (officers?) and high mucky-mucks had horses to ride on.

So for that reason, I believe that Jesus and everyone else was relatively thin and in good shape.

In regard to Jesus' dying after only three hours on the cross, keep in mind that 1) he hadn't slept since Wednesday night, and 2) he was scouraged at the pillar. It is my reading of the gospels' account that the scouraging was meant by Pilate to assuage the crowd calling for a crucifixion, and that it was not normal procedure to precede a crucifixion with a scouraging.

I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous and into pure speculation. No one knows any of this, there is no historically valid record/collaboration of the stories that have been told over and over some many times that people take them as truth, but there is no such truth in them. We and you have no idea what really happened 2000 years ago or even if the man called jesus even existed. It could be pure fabrication.

Let's get back to the topic at hand society, civilization, law, etc.

[sweevo]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Tom, it is my understanding that Jesus and his disciples walked everywhere. I have been told that only Roman soldiers (officers?) and high mucky-mucks had horses to ride on.

Well, God the Father certainly didn't walk everywhere:

2 Samuel 22:7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.

22:8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.

22:9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.

22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.

22:11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.

[SneakySnake]

Originally Posted by kennyc

I'm sorry but this is getting ridiculous and into pure speculation. No one knows any of this, there is no historically valid record/collaboration of the stories that have been told over and over some many times that people take them as truth, but there is no such truth in them. We and you have no idea what really happened 2000 years ago or even if the man called jesus even existed. It could be pure fabrication.

Let's get back to the topic at hand society, civilization, law, etc.

Lets get back to why God hates fags, ahem I mean snakes..

http://www.godhatesfags.com/

[Xanthe]

"It's sad and upsetting," Chagoya told the Post Wednesday night by phone from California. "I've never had this kind of violent reaction to my art. Violence doesn't resolve anything."

Hmm...putting a figure that resembles the common conception of Christ's image in a sexual situation and you don't expect to get a violent reaction from people to whom what you've done seems sacrilegious? That's like Salman Rushdie being surprised that a fatwa was placed on him.

Unless the artist lives in a totally autistic bubble, art is created to elicit reactions from its viewers. Why should he be surprised that his work elicited a violent response? Hasn't he been paying attention to what's been going on in the art world in connection with images that seem to mock religious iconic figures? Is the that naive?

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Tom, it is my understanding that Jesus and his disciples walked everywhere. I have been told that only Roman soldiers (officers?) and high mucky-mucks had horses to ride on.

So for that reason, I believe that Jesus and everyone else was relatively thin and in good shape.

In regard to Jesus' dying after only three hours on the cross, keep in mind that 1) he hadn't slept since Wednesday night, and 2) he was scouraged at the pillar. It is my reading of the gospels' account that the scouraging was meant by Pilate to assuage the crowd calling for a crucifixion, and that it was not normal procedure to precede a crucifixion with a scouraging.

Well, as I said, it certainly isn't the only possible explanation of his quick death on the cross, but as far as walking goes, I had an uncle who walked everyday all over town and he was a regular butterball. True, when he finally had to go to the hospital in his 60s he was told he "had the cholesterol level of a twenty-year-old," but he still had quite a gut.

One other possible explanation for his quick death is that he suffered from pulmonary edema. This would explain the fluid that came from his chest when his side was pierced by the centurion's sword. Could this have been brought on or aggravated by the flogging? I have no idea; I'm not a doctor.