Yet another thumb of the nose from publishers

[brecklundin]

in these discussions why does it never get mentioned that growth of ebooks combined with the dwindling DTB sales will all but kill off the favorite venue of avid and casual readers alike...the used book store that does not specialize in high quality & rare editions are going to die off. Sure it will take time but here in my small town we have lost 3 of the 4 used book stores we had for several decades or more. We no have ONE used store and the thrift shops have maybe 20% of the inventory they once would have.

All of this means higher sales for publishers as more and more content moved to ebook as the real goal of publishers is to eliminate the pbook for all but the best hard cover titles. Over the coming years this is their plan...and even now they are recovering sales they had long ago lost to the used book market here in the US. Where they never received revenue now they get a retail sale since there are less and less used options plus used books are increasing in price as well as their prices are usually, but not always, based on the the cover price.

So, there is a whole layer to this which seems to always go under appreciated at best and completely ignored at worst in these discussions. And yes this factors into the idea of a "fair" price of a used book.

Now, if publishers are too greedy here they will create a darknet demand which never existed to the degree it will once almost everyone has an ebook device or some sort.

[charleski]

You're all missing a very important point that was made in the article:

Marilyn Ducksworth, a spokeswoman for Penguin, said only that sales had been strong since the Sept. 28 publication date.

“It’s a long and wonderful book, of which we have sold over 20,000 e-books in the last seven days,” Ms. Ducksworth said.

many readers seemed willing to pay nearly $20 for an e-book. On Monday evening, “Fall of Giants” remained at No. 7 on the Kindle best-seller list, which is updated hourly.

The fact is that people are clearly willing to pay these prices for a hot new book. Why should publishers be worried about someone posting on a forum saying he'd have bought it at $10 when there are 20,000 people willing to buy it at $20? Publishers will still get the bulk of the other sales later when it's discounted.

Yes, $20 is high for an ebook, and yes, the industry (both publishing and retail) needs to get its ducks lined up better. If they want to use agency pricing, they need to build in the discounts that are typically given to retailers - "Fall of Giants" actually lists at $36, the HB is only cheaper because Amazon is able to discount it so much.

The whole point of the reverse auction model of book pricing is that you milk the top end of the market first. As long as both physical and digital editions of the book get discounted in parallel over the next year I'm not really that concerned.

[mysweety]

I think the answer is quite simple.

Keep away from DRM polluted and /or overpriced books using publishers that don't apply DRM such as Smashwords and sell at reasonable prices.

I you need to really need to read a DRM or overpriced ebook book just buy it secondhand and in that way these publishers don't get to take their wack.

After some time authors and publishers will find it in their interests to chage their ways.

Anyway their are so many fantastic classics that we can read!

[TallMomof2]

My book purchases have dropped off by at least 75% since the price fixing i.e. agency pricing began. What really irritates me, besides the high prices, is that when the book is released in paperback the ebook price is not always reduced accordingly.

The loss of the used book market will only benefit the publishers but I think they won't see as much profit as they anticipate because many readers will go to free sources (libraries, friends, and the darnket) for books they want to read.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by charleski

You're all missing a very important point that was made in the article:




The fact is that people are clearly willing to pay these prices for a hot new book. Why should publishers be worried about someone posting on a forum saying he'd have bought it at $10 when there are 20,000 people willing to buy it at $20? Publishers will still get the bulk of the other sales later when it's discounted.

Yes, $20 is high for an ebook, and yes, the industry (both publishing and retail) needs to get its ducks lined up better. If they want to use agency pricing, they need to build in the discounts that are typically given to retailers - "Fall of Giants" actually lists at $36, the HB is only cheaper because Amazon is able to discount it so much.

The whole point of the reverse auction model of book pricing is that you milk the top end of the market first. As long as both physical and digital editions of the book get discounted in parallel over the next year I'm not really that concerned.

Most consumers don't accept that the publishers have the right to milk new releases for as much as they can get. It's viewed as an insult. A successful transaction is when both sides are satisfied, it's not when one side gets the absolute most they can and the other side leaves angry.

Two random anecdotes from my workplace. These are people that I hadn't spoken to about ebooks before.

1) At lunch time I heard over the partition "Are they f$@&ing nuts, look at this. Unbelievable they want $24 for a friggin electronic book when I can buy the paper book for $18. Screw them".

2) Another co-worker saw that I had an electronic book reader and told me that he'd bought an iPad. "I tried downloading an electronic book but A) The selection wasn't very good B) The prices were really high C) The quality was horrible. I'll take a pass."

[charleski]

Originally Posted by Barcey

Most consumers don't accept that the publishers have the right to milk new releases for as much as they can get.

Of course they do. The reverse auction model has been in place for almost 50 years and is highly successful.

A successful transaction is when both sides are satisfied, it's not when one side gets the absolute most they can and the other side leaves angry.

If you want a hot new book now, you pay more. If you're willing to wait, you pay less. Both sides are satisfied. And the side-effect is that it allows steeper discounts on the low end.

Two random anecdotes from my workplace.

Guess what? When 20,000 people are willing to pay $20 for Follett's latest work, the publishers couldn't give a damn about those who think they're entitled to get it for less.

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by charleski

Of course they do. The reverse auction model has been in place for almost 50 years and is highly successful.



If you want a hot new book now, you pay more. If you're willing to wait, you pay less. Both sides are satisfied. And the side-effect is that it allows steeper discounts on the low end.

Guess what? When 20,000 people are willing to pay $20 for Follett's latest work, the publishers couldn't give a damn about those who think they're entitled to get it for less.

What percentage of the 20,000 people were satisfied with the transaction?

How many alienated customers have they created?

How many lost sales?

[cfrizz]

Originally Posted by Barcey

What percentage of the 20,000 people were satisfied with the transaction?

How many alienated customers have they created?

How many lost sales?

If they weren't satisfied, they would not have bought the book. No one put a gun to their head.

Not totally lost, just put off until the price comes down.

As been pointed out above, this is the way it has always worked. There will ALWAYS be those that have to be the first on the block to get the newest most expensive thing.

Then there will be the rest of us who will wait for reasonable prices.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

As been pointed out above, this is the way it has always worked. There will ALWAYS be those that have to be the first on the block to get the newest most expensive thing.

I entirely agree. Eg, about a year ago I bought a DVD box set for £34.99 from Amazon. I notice today that same box set costs £14.99. Was I "ripped off"? No, of course not; I made the personal choice to pay the premium price when it was newly released. I knew full well that I could wait a year and then buy it more cheaply.

[charleski]

Originally Posted by Barcey

How many lost sales?

None.

In a year's time the book will be discounted and they'll pick up the sales from those who'll only pay mass-market rates. This is the way publishing and many other forms of retail have worked for decades and is blindingly simple.

A high price for a big new bestseller is not the problem. The problem with ebook pricing is that publishers and retailers still need to get their act together to ensure that the ebook price comes down in parallel with the physical price as the book moves into discounted selling windows.

[Freeshadow]

I'm also a noHC buyer because of weight, price and shelfspace - It needs a really good omnibus edition for me to make an exception from that rule. but since we had this point in another thread I won't discuss that again.

The point I wanted to write is following: what makes me really wonder is tha fact that it seems the publishers do not take the complete loss of return risk into consideration when it comes to ebooks. I simply don't get it.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Freeshadow;1152555
The point I wanted to write is following: what makes me really wonder is tha fact that it seems the publishers do not take the complete loss of [B

return risk[/B] into consideration when it comes to ebooks. I simply don't get it.

Why should that matter at all? The only factor that is relevant is what price the book can be sold at that maximises the profit. The range of possible price to use increases a bit with ebooks but that is all.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Pookeysgirl

I think the only time the darknet should be used is if you have already purchased the pbook and want to re-read it on your ereader. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.

I've used the darknet on occasion, but only in cases where the book wasn't available as an ebook from the publisher, and existed as an ebook only because someone had created one from a paper copy. I already owned the paper volumes.

If the book is available as a legitimate ebook, I may very well buy it again. Books that meet that criteria are favorite books by favorite authors, and I want the author to get additional royalties from a sale.
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Dennis

[Barcey]

Originally Posted by charleski

None.

In a year's time the book will be discounted and they'll pick up the sales from those who'll only pay mass-market rates. This is the way publishing and many other forms of retail have worked for decades and is blindingly simple.

A high price for a big new bestseller is not the problem. The problem with ebook pricing is that publishers and retailers still need to get their act together to ensure that the ebook price comes down in parallel with the physical price as the book moves into discounted selling windows.

If it's reasonable price windowing and you haven't alienated your consumer yes. When you're pricing too high it's an insult. Especially when it's priced higher then a hard copy physical book. Amazon had the price right. It's higher then most consumers think the ebook should be priced but they obviously had done the market research.

If it's a physical product that they can't get in any other way yes. When you can get it for free from the library or from other means, no.

My examples were just to show that it's not just people posting on internet forums that are angry about the pricing. Talk to people on the street and you'll find out pretty quick what people think.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by avidone

It is not just a matter of costs being less or slightly less for ebooks versus printed books-- there is also the matter that these ebooks are DRM'ed in such a way that does not allow easily sharing them with friends or re-selling them-- something with which you have absolute freedom with a printed book

Sharing with friends and reselling is exactly what DRM is supposed to prevent.

With a printed book, it's different. There is one physical copy. If you loan it to a friend, you don't have it. The same holds for resale. Once again, once sold, you no longer have it.

With an ebook, that goes out the window. You still have it, whether you share it or sell it, and the producers are afraid of significant lost sales because readers will get a free copy from friends or cheap resold copy.

Ultimately, DRM is doomed to failure - it is only slightly effective is at all against copying and sharing. And I don't see resale happening for ebooks. If DRM doesn't exist, there's nothing to prevent someone from simply giving a copy away, so why should anyone bother to buy a used copy?

Amazon's DRM isn't really intended to address either of those issues. The intent is to lock you into amazon as the vendor. Mobi format ebooks not protected by DRM can be side loaded into a Kindle or Kindle app, but if you want to buy a DRM protected title, you must purchase from Amazon. They want to sell you ebooks, and be the only one who sells you ebooks.
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Dennis